6 bolt swap problems, have fuel, spark, and compression but wont start

[rnstphns]

im fairly new with dsm's so i had a local mechanic do my 6 bolt swap according to http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/tech/1gina2g.pdf. he finished the install and started the car. then he realized he didnt tighten the exhaust cam. so shut it down and tightened that. then the crank pulley slid off because he forgot the retainer clip. it jumped teeth on the timing belt and it bent the intake valves so we had the head redone. now its back together and it wont start. i have a datalogger and its reading 5* advance timing. theres fuel, spark and compression it turns over but it just backfires through the exhaust and wont start. we used the 4-3-2-1 plug order on the head and 3-2-1-4 on the coil. the only thing we changed was cams but i dont think that could cause a problem. we cant figure it out. any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[xxraptor660xx]

What's the compression reading?

 

[rnstphns]

160-170 across the board.

 

[Spoolin98]

Are you sure the timing is set correctly and not off a tooth or two? From the sounds of it your mechanic is a moron and I wouldnt allow him to touch that motor anymore.

 

[rnstphns]

i dont think he will be after he gets it running. would not swapping the injector order cause this. im not sure if he did or not because when he used the normal 2g firing order with the injector pins swapped he said it was worse and i dont think he ever changed them once i gave him the correct order.

 

[rnstphns]

and the timing is dead on.

 

[Spoolin98]

Are you using the 1g coilpack or the 2g coilpack? Im assuming the 1g, if so, try using the 2g coilpack and reverting all the plug wires back to stock.

 

[rnstphns]

sorry i forgot to say im using the 2g coilpack.

 

[Spoolin98]

sorry i forgot to say im using the 2g coilpack.

If your using the 2g coilpack and you swapped plug wires then thats your problem. You only swap plug wires if your using the 1g coilpack. Put the plug wires on the coil pack and on the motor the same way as you had them with the 7 bolt in the car.
Oh yeah and leave the injector order alone too.

 

[rnstphns]

i see. i dont remeber the order they were in. ive been searching for it but i cant find a definant answer as to which plug order to use. im reading the 95 firing order is different than the 96-99 firing order. since im using a 95 ecu should i use the 95 plug order or are they all the same? sorry for asking so many questions.

 

[Spoolin98]

i see. i dont remeber the order they were in. ive been searching for it but i cant find a definant answer as to which plug order to use. im reading the 95 firing order is different than the 96-99 firing order. since im using a 95 ecu should i use the 95 plug order or are they all the same? sorry for asking so many questions.

Do you have a 95 ecu for DSMlink?

Forget what I said before, if you dont have DSMlink, then switch the injector trigger wires.

This is even confusing me. What I would do is set your plugs up as if it were 95 car with no swap, whatever that might be, idk? Then swap plugs 1 and 4 with plugs 2 and 3 like magnus's writeup states for the 6 bolt swap with a 2g head.

Keep me posted, because Im about to put a 95 eprom in my car and Im using the 2g coilpack too, but Ill have DSMlink to invert the CAS.

I think the plug order is the same from 95-99, when I looked it up in my Haynes awhile ago I dont remember there being a different order for the 95's? But honestly, i just dont know?

 

[92awddsm]

i see. i dont remeber the order they were in. ive been searching for it but i cant find a definant answer as to which plug order to use. im reading the 95 firing order is different than the 96-99 firing order. since im using a 95 ecu should i use the 95 plug order or are they all the same? sorry for asking so many questions.

Leave injector wiring as stock. As for firing order, try this.

4123 on coil.
4321 on head from left to right

If that doesnt work, try

3214 on the coil
4321 again on head.

 

[snowborder714]

i see. i dont remeber the order they were in. ive been searching for it but i cant find a definant answer as to which plug order to use. im reading the 95 firing order is different than the 96-99 firing order. since im using a 95 ecu should i use the 95 plug order or are they all the same? sorry for asking so many questions.

The stock order is 4-1-2-3 on the coil pack (it should be written on there). And then it's 1-2-3-4 into the head (with 1 being closest to the cam gears).

I have yet to see any other firing order. Is there even a difference between a 1g and 2g coil pack when it comes to firing order?

What head and CAS do you have?

Keep me posted, because Im about to put a 95 eprom in my car and Im using the 2g coilpack too, but Ill have DSMlink to invert the CAS.

Spoolin98, when you get DSMlink, you'll have to check the 'Invert CAS' box since you are running a non-'95/'96 CAS. You'll also have to swap your spark plug order to 3-2-1-4. For more info on this, see this thread I posted in:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/233209-6-bolt-swap-dsm-link.html

 

[92awddsm]

Spoolin98, when you get DSMlink, you'll have to check the 'Invert CAS' box since you are running a non-'95/'96 CAS. You'll also have to swap your spark plug order to 3-2-1-4. For more info on this, see this thread I posted in:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/233209-6-bolt-swap-dsm-link.html

Invert cas should be checked by default when ordered correctly.

 

[snowborder714]

Invert cas should be checked by default when ordered correctly.

Yep. Just making sure he knew that it should be checked. But depending on who you order from, they might forget to ask if you want it checked by default.

 

[Spoolin98]

The stock order is 4-1-2-3 on the coil pack (it should be written on there). And then it's 1-2-3-4 into the head (with 1 being closest to the cam gears).

I have yet to see any other firing order. Is there even a difference between a 1g and 2g coil pack when it comes to firing order?

What head and CAS do you have?




Spoolin98, when you get DSMlink, you'll have to check the 'Invert CAS' box since you are running a non-'95/'96 CAS. You'll also have to swap your spark plug order to 3-2-1-4. For more info on this, see this thread I posted in:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/233209-6-bolt-swap-dsm-link.html

Im pretty sure there is a difference between the 1g and 2g coilpack, I did the 6 bolt swap with a 1g head and a 2g coilpack and I didnt swap any plug wires at all. I hooked up everything the same as with my 7bolt/2g head.

92awddsm
According to Magnus, Due to the inverted Cam signal, injector trigger wires will need to be switch on 95-96 year ECU cars. So why wouldnt he do this?

 

[Spoolin98]

snowborder714:

In the link you provided, you said

"According to the Magnus 1gina2g document:

On a 97+ car with a stock 2g head, no plug swap is required. If you're running a 1g head, I believe it is though."

So I have a 6 bolt block and a 1g head, with a 2g coil pack. I did not swap plugs. Which means there has to be a difference between the 1g and 2g coilpacks. One must fire differently than the other.

 

[snowborder714]

snowborder714:

In the link you provided, you said

"According to the Magnus 1gina2g document:

On a 97+ car with a stock 2g head, no plug swap is required. If you're running a 1g head, I believe it is though."

So I have a 6 bolt block and a 1g head, with a 2g coil pack. I did not swap plugs. Which means there has to be a difference between the 1g and 2g coilpacks. One must fire differently than the other.

Hmm...interesting. It makes sense as I have a full 1g swap (7 bolt though) with a 1g coil pack and my wires are swapped. It must just be the way the coil pack is wired.

 

[rnstphns]

no i dont have dsmlink yet. ill try putting the plugs back to how i had them with my 7 bolt. thanks for all the help.

 

[Spoolin98]

no i dont have dsmlink yet. ill try putting the plugs back to how i had them with my 7 bolt. thanks for all the help.

Let us know how that works.

 

[rnstphns]

The stock order is 4-1-2-3 on the coil pack (it should be written on there). And then it's 1-2-3-4 into the head (with 1 being closest to the cam gears).

I have yet to see any other firing order. Is there even a difference between a 1g and 2g coil pack when it comes to firing order?

What head and CAS do you have?

I have the 1g head and the CAS is from a 90 plymouth laser.

 

[Spoolin98]

The stock order is 4-1-2-3 on the coil pack (it should be written on there). And then it's 1-2-3-4 into the head (with 1 being closest to the cam gears).

I have yet to see any other firing order. Is there even a difference between a 1g and 2g coil pack when it comes to firing order?

What head and CAS do you have?

I have the 1g head and the CAS is from a 90 plymouth laser.

So you have a 1g head, 6 bolt block, 90 CAS, and a 2g coilpack.
Thats the same setup I have except for the CAS, I used the normal firing order from my 7 bolt with a 2g head and it worked fine. Try that.
As for the injector wiring, Im still waiting to see why 92awddsm says you shouldnt do what the magnus write up says since you do have a 95 ECU without dsmlink to invert the CAS signal.

 

[rnstphns]

-update-
went to the mechanics shop today and told him to use the 4-1-2-3 firing order and switch the injector trigger wires. as soon as he did that it fired right up. everything should be buttoned up tomorrow. thanks for all the help.

 

[snowborder714]

Glad to hear it's running now

 

[Spoolin98]

-update-
went to the mechanics shop today and told him to use the 4-1-2-3 firing order and switch the injector trigger wires. as soon as he did that it fired right up. everything should be buttoned up tomorrow. thanks for all the help.

Glad to see you got it running

So let me get this straight, you switched the plug wires back to stock and the injector trigger wires back to stock?
Or the plug wires back to stock and switched the trigger wires like the magnus write up says to?