4g63 into a neon

[polarexpress17]

might get laughed at for this, but i dont care

i read that a 420A is the 2.0 engine in a dodge neon, the reason i am asking is because my uncle has a neon sitting in front of our house, it needs a transmission, since the 420A is the same motor that is in the RS model eclipse, will the 4g63 fit?

thnxin advance

 

[elfroggo]

It's hard enough trying to fit a 4g63 into a 420a eclipse.

Like they say though, you can do anything with $$$.

 

[Defiant]

might get laughed at for this, but i dont care

More likely yelled at. As every other time this has been asked, the correct answer is "no".

If you'd want to put about three cars' worth of money into the job, it'll come out just fine. But think of it as starting from scratch.

 

[JayRolla]

Just turbo the neon how it is. My mechanic built a turbo charged DOHC neon with a 50 shot also. It was a bad ass little car.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

You might want to check on FYCRacing.com , they have neons, DSMs, what ever on there, and Ive heard of some odd swaps by people on there, so maybe some one did it, and could tell you how, and what they used.

 

[dazzellerr]

hello, i am new to THIS forum, not on others.
used the search feature on here, along with searching on the link above to no avail.

i have a rare opportunity here to be different. i am a co-owner of a salvage yard and we recently picked up a 93 Talon TSI. it was in a front passenger wreck, hit and run, but the guts are still in great shape.

a little background on me, i have a 95 neon sohc turbocharged with the hahn 16g, bfmic, ect ect. was running it on the stock bottom end with 157k+ on it until it finally gave up, which was expected. i aquired a black 4 door 96 neon about 2 months ago and i am in the process of doing a full tube chassis drag car with it.
i have the opportunity to either...

A: rebuild the bottom end with JE's and go from there (1100+ for the bottom end goodies + machine shop ect)
B: swap over to a DOHC, requires the head, harness, and ecu + rebuild the bottom end (1700 + machine shop fees)
C: take the entire motor/trans/carrier assembly out of the talon and fit it into the chassis design hoping the rear lines up with the front ect ect. (500 for the entire drive train)

the sohc bottom end build would the the easiest, but certainly not the cheapest i know. the problem i will run into will be a brick wall with the restrictions of the sohc not being able to flow enough for my power levels i want to achieve in '09.

i really want to go through with the 4g63 swap. it is cheap to do, and the motor is boosted from the factory, so i won't have to rebuild the bottom end until something bad happens. i should be able to push 15psi through that motor with the 16g i imagine. ( like i said, i am a neon guy, not a dsm'er)

what things should i be on the lookout for in contemplating this swap? what would need to be done to ensure the reliablity of the 4g? i will have all the fuel mods except the injectors for this setup ie: booster pump, fpr, return line ect ect. also, what would be a good standalone for it? neons use megasquirt mostly, other than the AEM.

any help on the aboved questions would be appreciated!
thanks,
dazz

 

[absolute_DSM]

used the search feature on here, along with searching on the link above to no avail.

Are you kidding? The search button works just like any other forum. It took 10 seconds.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/211088-420a-4g63-swap-questions.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/226084-420a-4g63-swap-info.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/273322-4g63-engine-swap.html
etc, etc , etc.....

This has been beat to death over and over and over. Defiant should have closed this while he was here.

 

[dazzellerr]

Are you kidding? The search button works just like any other forum. It took 10 seconds.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/211088-420a-4g63-swap-questions.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/226084-420a-4g63-swap-info.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/273322-4g63-engine-swap.html
etc, etc , etc.....

This has been beat to death over and over and over. Defiant should have closed this while he was here.

it is too bad that those links are about swapping from a dsm into a dsm, and that the neon motor is not a 420A, it is a s4re. but you already knew that right? right.
www.neons.org :: View topic - Engine Designation - is it a 420A or Not?


what's this in red above my reply area?

No "Use the Search" replies - answer the question, link to the answer, or don't reply

you know, i really, really hate to start off on the wrong foot here, so let's start over, mkay?

 

[absolute_DSM]

Gee you got me. Obviously, I dont pat attention to neons.

But its the exact same answer. Swapping engines has been beaten to death over and over again, and on EVERY car forum. Its has nothing to do with engine and chassis specific vehicles when you mention engines that are entirely different along with the chassis.

You will need a way to mount the engine - modified mounts or entirely new fabs mounts.
You will need to use the original ECU for the engine or just go full stand alone.
You will need to decide which tranny to use - then find a way to mount it to the engine (if using the opposite vehicles) or find a way to run the axles to the hubs (if using same engine/tranny combo)

Thats a very basic start. If you cant weld, wire, and sweat like a pro, then you better have a big bank account.

 

[dazzellerr]

Gee you got me. Obviously, I dont pat attention to neons.

But its the exact same answer. Swapping engines has been beaten to death over and over again, and on EVERY car forum. Its has nothing to do with engine and chassis specific vehicles when you mention engines that are entirely different along with the chassis.

You will need a way to mount the engine - modified mounts or entirely new fabs mounts.
You will need to use the original ECU for the engine or just go full stand alone.
You will need to decide which tranny to use - then find a way to mount it to the engine (if using the opposite vehicles) or find a way to run the axles to the hubs (if using same engine/tranny combo)

Thats a very basic start. If you cant weld, wire, and sweat like a pro, then you better have a big bank account.

i was planning on running the ecu out of the tsi, along with the motor, tranny, carrier assembly, basicly, everything to make it run without the body.
also, like i said above, i am fabbing my own work ehre. i am building the tube chassis from scratch from 1.625 OD mild steel according to the NHRA '08 rule book specs. i can pertty much fit anything i want to under the hood since the entire car will be made of tubing except the fenders, cab, ect, ect.
what i wanted to know, and found some of my answers already by searching non obvious threads was what software to use (found dsmlink was a preffered choice) and to use a 2gn maft ect ect.
i was talking with a buddy of mine, fellow member on here with a certain 9 second talon, that mentioned not putting in the carrier assembly due to the hassle of trying to align it with the front end so it won't dogleg down the track. he mentioned taking the input shaft, or output shaft, can't remember at the moment, anywyas, taking it out and plugging it off and just making it fwd with the better gearing of the awd tranny and tougher than the fwd tranny as well. the REAL delemma is that i want traction!
my 95 sohc neon had no traction at all. best et i could manage was a terrible 13.7@107mph. sucks because i dyno'd it at 266whp/244wpf and the car only weighed 2250. car spun, ect ect.
awd=no traction problems until you get up there in the p game. i want 400whp in my 1700lb tube chassis neon. should be plenty fast for the time being.

i dont have a big bank account, luckily, i can weld, wire, and sweat like a pro eh?!

 

[marioortiz69]

It is probably not worth the trouble.

 

[Purevil]

I'm pretty sure you will be the first to pull it off, so your probally not going to find any swap advice. You might have better luck crusin the neon boards.

If you can shoehorn it in there, we can definatly help you make it run and help solving any 4g63 related problems. You have a few other options too, you could find another 1g with a bunk driveline. You could part it out and it will pay for your neon's bottom end (93' had a few desirable parts,especially if it's a 5spd awd). You could just make a badass go kart like that dude on youtube.

 

[FenixTX717]

exactly what the 1st guy said, with money anything is possible....i mean AMS did tune and build a 4G63Honda Hatch....it was one of the cleanest installs i've ever seen and i didn't think it was possible! haha but it was badass

 

[90talontsi90]

If your going to make a tube chassis then yea you could make it work and it'd be badass. Now I did say could because it won't be easy, But since your the co-owner of a salvage yard here is what I'd do. I'd take a good book on chassis work and start from there using a complete front clip from the talon for the blue print, I'd transform it into a tube form of the origonal, then I'd design the rear end around A rebuild 9' straight axle( It'd make the design of the rear alot easier and stronger) All in all as long as your chassis building skills are up to it then you COULD make work. I myself would love to do something similar but I don't have the space or the tools.

Kyle

 

[dazzellerr]

closest thing i have found so far is an impreza platform swap into a neon.
guy's did a great job on it though.

looks as though i am going to do this swap. pretty straight forward swap other than having to make the mounts, but if i can make a tube chassis, the mounts are nothing!

 

[ninjaneonturtle]

You know all you have to do is swap SRT internals into a stratus block [2.4] and drop it in.. all you need is a DOHC car that has the harness or just the harness and one modified mount. The harness from a SOHC can work it just takes wiring a few DOHC sensors. You only have to switch the injector plugs around basically too. It works with the whole car and dash harness, there's basically no chopping at all. You'll end up making more torque when you get to the bigger numbers doing that anyway and a better platformfor the neon than swapping in a 4g63.

You can use any DOHC head as long as its in the neon/stratus/pt cruiser family. You can use any 2.4 block/bottom end from 2003 and under. They actually sell the 2.4 SRT to stratus bottom end rebuild kit at modern performance to get the 2.4 up to SRT specs. Its only around $1200 if I recall. Its much more cost effective and makes more sense to me. That what I'm doing with my 95 Neon once I get the funds.

And the DOHC 2.0 in the Neon is the D4RE, not the S4RE. The SOHC 2.0 is the A588 and the 2.4 DOHC is the A855

 

[dazzellerr]

apples to oranges, mine is a 95 sohc. swapping to a dohc from a 95 will require the dohc harness for the ecu because the 95's had 1 plug for the ecu, and the 96-99 had 2. i know the blocks are the same, ect ect ect ect ect, i am a neon guy after all.

either way, this black car will be getting the 4g in it once i get the go-ahead to get the parts.
i dont want a 2.4 in this car. never have, never will. everone is swapping to them, just like honda owners swapping the b18a into their civics.
"oh look, another honda swap"


anyways fella's, carry one.

 

[ninjaneonturtle]

apples to oranges, mine is a 95 sohc. swapping to a dohc from a 95 will require the dohc harness for the ecu because the 95's had 1 plug for the ecu, and the 96-99 had 2. i know the blocks are the same, ect ect ect ect ect, i am a neon guy after all.

either way, this black car will be getting the 4g in it once i get the go-ahead to get the parts.
i dont want a 2.4 in this car. never have, never will. everone is swapping to them, just like honda owners swapping the b18a into their civics.
"oh look, another honda swap"


anyways fella's, carry one.

I've been around neons for since ever and have owned a whole fleet. Either way, noone has that SRT swap anywhere near where I live so I've never seen it. I've only seen one, and it was done right. Although the car was just a shell. Nowhere near where I live. What I'm talking about is not another SRT swap, because its not an SRT swap. The DOHC harness from 95 will be all that is needed. It has the same 1 plug as the SOHC. Yes, DOHC's did exist for 95. Its not even a big deal, you don't need the harness at all if you can wire up a few sensors.

Neons aren't Hondas, and never will be, that is apples to oranges. Swapping a neon to a Chrysler 2.4 is like swapping a Mitsu hybrid 2.4 into a DSM. Infact it is a hybrid. Do you go around saying oh that's just another 2.4 DSM? I don't think so.

Carry on.

 

[dazzellerr]

i guess i have been on neons.org too long. that is what everyone on there is doing.
either way, this thread is about 4g63 into a neon, and that is what i intend on doing. fail or succeed, trial by error, or just plain dumb luck.
it is obious noone has done it, so i cant really get into advise on how to do it here, or on any other forum. i have searched honda-tech about it, found 2 cars with the swap, one being a crx, the other a hatch, but not really any info other than it was done.
i am not trying to be a trend setter, or to be unique. like i said, i have the opportunity to have a go at it. if the awd conversion fails, i will just make it fwd with the awd trany,.

 

[GofaST4life]

you should sell your neon(s), and fix up the Talon

just my .02

 

[turboglenn]

We're building a 97 neon autocross road race car for ESP and a few other classes it might fit into. Btu putting one of my spare eclipse motors in it would be a nightmare so i've jsut started fabbing up everythign to turbo the 420a neon motor (never heard of the s4r ot whatever) this motor is a 420a , even the machinist knew that when he did the head and block. So i must have missed something abotu an s4r motor

 

[ninjaneonturtle]

We're building a 97 neon autocross road race car for ESP and a few other classes it might fit into. Btu putting one of my spare eclipse motors in it would be a nightmare so i've jsut started fabbing up everythign to turbo the 420a neon motor (never heard of the s4r ot whatever) this motor is a 420a , even the machinist knew that when he did the head and block. So i must have missed something abotu an s4r motor

The neon D4RE and the eclipse 420a share the same block, that's all they share minus a few minor things if any.. You can use the block and bottom end, but need all neon parts for it to work.

 

[dazzellerr]

you should sell your neon(s), and fix up the Talon

just my .02

i wish i could, but the carnage from the hit and run is just too much. among the major things like bent frame ect, is the axle broke, upper control arm broke, tie rod bent, ect ect. i am going to have to replace those anyways, but the frame there is so messed up that it would require cutting it and re-welding a new section. i know, less work then what i am planning, just not as fun.
besides, the black neon will be 1700 pounds, i dont know if you can get a 2gn talon that far down. damn fatties anyways!

on a side note, this motor is a 7 bolt correct? also, it can take 20psi with the hahn 16g i assume with an upgrade in injectors, say 650's?

 

[bardabe]

im brobably going to get hated on

 

[delta448]

if the awd conversion fails, i will just make it fwd with the awd trany,.

Why would you ever opt for fwd? If you can't go AWD, then I think RWD should be the goal. Honestly, if I were you and were building a tube frame anyways, I'd rotate the engine and find a way to mate it to a rwd trans. The DSM transmissions are one of the major weaknesses of our cars. Absolute crap in a box with a stick tied to it. -I have a daily arm wrestling match with mine just to get it in gear until it warms up. I'm sure you could easily peruse the junkyard you own and find a bulletproof rwd trans and good rear diff. RWD can be setup better for drag launches and can allow you better recovering ability if you push it too hard in a turn. AWD kills clutches and inherently has understeer. With that being said, I still do love owning an AWD, and if I went RWD, I'd be hard pressed not to use a GM LSx V8.