4g63 in a civic?

[UndergroundR32]

Originally posted by RetardedAWD
If it doesnt run low 10's or high 9's Ill roll it off a cliff.

I'll meet it at the bottom for some spare pistons if they're not destroyed .

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by Honda_killer
well i said belive or not!

Ok well I will say not. 285 fl lbs of tourque is really tough in a Honda. A few mods will not add 50+ hp and 50 lb ft of torque to the wheels. Find the mods or the dyno chart and you will get a heart felt apology.

Which brings me to my next Honda guy with delusions of grandeur.

Originally posted by RetardedAWD
upper 500 almost 600hp @ 20 psi with some driving an upper 9 sec pass is do-able.

I actually laughed out loud when I read that. Obviously this car isn’t built yet and the figures you are throwing us are guesses. I am going to come right out and say that you can't make 600hp with only 20 lbs of boost it borders on a mathematical impossibility. Even the pros like Kubo use about 10 more lbs of boost and the bottle for the same hp figure. I will tell you what why don’t you make even a high 10 sec pass before you start talking about 9s. That is VERY difficult in a fwd platform more so if you aren’t using wheelie bars and the use of them would kind of throw your streetable argument out the window.

Originally posted by RetardedAWD
It would ruin almost any DSM that will be driven on the street(possibly even John Shepherd)

Lets see you get a 600 hp fwd car to hook on the street from a dead stop you probrably wouldn’t even have traction in 3rd. A 400hp DSM could ruin your day because it would hook and leave you while you were still spinning for the first 2 gears.

Apparently you have heard of John Shepherd that’s great. If you haven’t studied him he is the model of consistency hitting low 10s high 9s every pass with no breakage. He also just hit a new personal bet 9.6 this last weekend. Why don’t you finish building your car then you can talk to us about beating the most consistent racer in the “street class” even though your car probably wouldn’t be street class legal.

PS Does everyone else just nod their head and say wow when you start BSing about your car?

 

[imperial]

Originally posted by RetardedAWD

Imperial are you on Honda-Tech?

Yep! I post on Honda-Tech and ClubSI as integra_gsr98.

 

[Honda_killer]

At first i dirint belive him either so i raced him an got the #@%#@%#@%#@% kicked out of me(I Can keep up to the rear bumper of an SS) by about 2 cars i asked him what he had the only thing he told me was Im running a b20 with a b18 vtec head fully built and full ehaust and intake and exhaust then i asked him whats the power he said 220 wahts the tourque 285....i think he more than that under the hood

 

[Honda_killer]

sorry for repeating my self full exhaust and full intake and full exhaust

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by imperial
The only problem I have in general with the DSM community, is the total lack of appreciation for anything that is NON DSM by some people. Yes, they are nice cars, yes they are easily made fast, but there are other forms of cars out there, and I've seen just as many riced out 2G DSM's as I have Civics. Lets face it, the sad truth is, anyone can rice any car out now-a-days. Hopefully over the years, everyone will learn to love the other cars for what they are, and not for what some retards do to them.

Here is my problems with Hondas. I can't count how many times I have heard some kid hype up his “mad fast” Honda to see it run a 15. I have seen quite a few turbo charged Integras and Civic Sis run times that are marginally better than stock. The owners just tend to be idiots and this makes everyone else look bad.

Also you had to do pretty crazy engine work to be able to handle (you hope) 400hp to the wheels. I'm assuming that’s on race gas. A DSM can more than handle that with a stock motor. My 91 rod 95 piston motor can probably stand 500 hp to the wheels and that is on a fairly basic build up. My 60 trim can is making 400 hp on pump gas and Buschur just put down 600 to the wheels on the same turbo with a basic off the shelf parts build up.

When you are all done this build up your fwd car isn’t going to want to hook up at all on the street. I just don’t think its fun spinning the wheels all the way into 3rd while some guy has already blasted past you and is giving you the hazards.

You also mention road racing. I hear a lot of people bring this up. Now I have done some autocrossing and some open tracking so I am interested in handling as well as speed. The problem is most of the Honda owners that talk about what a good handling car they are never do any competitive road racing. Most of the Hondas around here at least are mainly drag raced no open tracked.

Now I'm not blind I do see really fast Hondas and I appreciate them. I don’t know if everyone here has seen the Altered Atmosphere’s gorgeous orange Civic running low 11s at some crazy mph on slicks. Stuff like that is very cool. I just hate all they hype leading up to a slow car. It’s a lot like the Mutt turbos if the owner is an idiot all the money in the world wont help them but if the owner knows what he is doing than look out.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by Honda_killer
At first i dirint belive him either so i raced him an got the #@%#@%#@%#@% kicked out of me(I Can keep up to the rear bumper of an SS) by about 2 cars i asked him what he had the only thing he told me was Im running a b20 with a b18 vtec head fully built and full ehaust and intake and exhaust then i asked him whats the power he said 220 wahts the tourque 285....i think he more than that under the hood

The problem is that is ricer math. If I beat a Camaro and you beat me that must mean that you can beat a Camaro. Its crappy logic to say the least. I'm going to repeat myself 285 lb ft out of a Honda is really tough. Lets see him make a quarter mile pass and see what he does.

 

[RetardedAWD]

Holy #@%#@%#@%#@%.
I didnt mean to start all of this with my civic... and if you would have read my post I said "at the track" the civic is not for street use..well once in a while*grin* I would get destroyed on the street by any AWD that runs better than a mid 11 on the street. But anything after 3rd gear I would reel them in...

Im not trying to start crap on this board man, I dont hate DSM's I actually LOVE them thats why I have one for a STREET car.. The
civic is real, I need a few more things before its finished but with my stock turbo going bad in my Talon I had to upgrade sheesh!
and for the smarty pants that said its mechanically impossible to make 500-600hp from 20psi of boost is an idiot. No no one nods heads, they know whats coming. The car is superfriggincharged not turbo. Think in shear size of the compressor.. Jeff at Progress made 480hp on 14-15psi(datalogged) out of his Vortech setup and Im actually using a LARGER compressor. It will have no problem pushing enough CFM @20psi for 500-600hp.
I have been working on this project for a looooong time and I have done my homework brother... I have made my own charger drive system with tensioner and belt alignment system etc etc etc.... i have done everything from ground up. So sit back and watch. It may take a little while before things come together for the civic, as I just dumped 3,000 into my Talon so it set me back a little.
Dont knock me because honestly you have no idea.
Oh and the suspension is using shocks mounted in the factory locations and all.. nothing like Chris Rado Penske setup.. it'll be pretty trick though.
I know that traction is going to be a problem . Haha

 

[rdrkt]

Idiot maybe. What type of compression are you running? I just find it really hard to believe that such a little amount of boost can make so much power in a 1.8L or smaller motor. I was not aware that the car was supercharged that is a pretty unique approach.

Let me give you this scenario. Buschur Racing just put together a car making 600 hp to the wheels using off the shelf parts. I'm getting most of the same parts that are found on that car. But it would be a mistake to say that I'm going to make the same or more hp as they will without the car being completed. In fact on my car I'm using a 4g64 so I'm going to have a half a liter advantage over them. But you don’t hear me talking about challenging Lisa Kubo. A lot can happen while building up a car I know your excited I would be too just keep it in check.

 

[RetardedAWD]

Yea I know mabey I was a little presumptuos but I know it has a real good chance at doing very well. Static compression is 9-1 any lower and lower rpm band will be weak. Im spinning the motor to 10k. All the power is from 7-10k but with the 4.40 fd it stays right there the whole way. I may have to step up to a 26in slick but Earl Laskey ran 9.4's (I believe) with a 24.5 peg legged!

 

[imperial]

Originally posted by rdrkt


Here is my problems with Hondas. I can't count how many times I have heard some kid hype up his “mad fast” Honda to see it run a 15. I have seen quite a few turbo charged Integras and Civic Sis run times that are marginally better than stock. The owners just tend to be idiots and this makes everyone else look bad.

It's the same with *ANY* car. I've seen kids do it with every type of car. They're kids, and they need some guidance.

Also you had to do pretty crazy engine work to be able to handle (you hope) 400hp to the wheels. I'm assuming that’s on race gas. A DSM can more than handle that with a stock motor. My 91 rod 95 piston motor can probably stand 500 hp to the wheels and that is on a fairly basic build up. My 60 trim can is making 400 hp on pump gas and Buschur just put down 600 to the wheels on the same turbo with a basic off the shelf parts build up.

Crazy engine work indeed, and it's more than good for 400HP at the wheels as far as strength of the components goes. I'm hoping to put down near 400 on pump gas w/ proper tuning. Stock motor or not, you're comparing apples to oranges, as the stock Honda motor was never designed to see boost.

The Ball Bearing HiFi 60-1 that my setup has should be more than willing to create the HP, it's just gonna have some spool issues. But you give a little, and you take a little.

When you are all done this build up your fwd car isn’t going to want to hook up at all on the street. I just don’t think its fun spinning the wheels all the way into 3rd while some guy has already blasted past you and is giving you the hazards.

You also mention road racing. I hear a lot of people bring this up. Now I have done some autocrossing and some open tracking so I am interested in handling as well as speed. The problem is most of the Honda owners that talk about what a good handling car they are never do any competitive road racing. Most of the Hondas around here at least are mainly drag raced no open tracked.

Now I'm not blind I do see really fast Hondas and I appreciate them. I don’t know if everyone here has seen the Altered Atmosphere’s gorgeous orange Civic running low 11s at some crazy mph on slicks. Stuff like that is very cool. I just hate all they hype leading up to a slow car. It’s a lot like the Mutt turbos if the owner is an idiot all the money in the world wont help them but if the owner knows what he is doing than look out.

Yes, traction will be an issue, but I didn't build the car to street race, I built it for the track. Spinning the tires does suck, but it's part of the game I guess. As far as the road racing goes, most of my Honda friends up in this area all road race more than they drag race, heh. But, it's all the same, there are ricers everywhere, and they drive all types of cars. Let's just someday try and educate them and get rid of them.

Anyways, I'm not looking to argue, etc, just stating some information, and hoping everyone will realize each car has its ups and downs, and what a few retards do shouldn't reflect on how the car is itself.

 

[Bohrn]

normally asperated 280 lbs ft of torque is normally for a 5.0 liter or larger engine. There just isn't enough displacement to make the crankshaft turn with that much grunt. The hp figure of 220 is not at all unbeleliveable. But even the 5.0l Mustang V8 HO engine did not make 300 hp until 1987. And it had been evolving each year from 82. Hell even some of the Z-28 350/5.7liter engines of the mid 70s-early 80s didnt make over 300.

Unless he is running a forced induction system or a big shot of NOS, there is no way a street motor of the 2 liter class can make 280 lbs of torque

 

[imperial]

I agree. The Numbers I have seen from the b20/vtec setups are along the lines of 225 WHP and around 180 ft/lbs of torque or slightly higher. They're still HP heavy over torque heavy. Granted, they put down more torque than your typical honda, they still have no torque.

 

[Bohrn]

yea, nice V6 torque, but not HO V8 torque. And gobs for a med sized 4 cyl.

 

[insane147]

anyone remember the crazy group c cars of the 80's? 1.5 liter engins putting out 1300-1500 hp. anything can be done, if you have the money, pretty simple.

 

[Bohrn]

yep, the F1 turbo cars of the same era, TAG Porsche 1.5l making 1500 hp. But they were turbocharged(as were the IMSA GTP cars with insane power/liter capacity). Also, hp is not really the crux of the matter.

we were discussing torque figures for a small to med sized, street driven, normally aspirated engine.

 

[insane147]

ah...ok sorry.

 

[RetardedAWD]

Originally posted by rdrkt

Also you had to do pretty crazy engine work to be able to handle (you hope) 400hp to the wheels. I'm assuming that’s on race gas. A DSM can more than handle that with a stock motor. My 91 rod 95 piston motor can probably stand 500 hp to the wheels and that is on a fairly basic build up. My 60 trim can is making 400 hp on pump gas and Buschur just put down 600 to the wheels on the same turbo with a basic off the shelf parts build up.

Karl from Inline Pro put down 360-370hp to the wheels on a stock bottom 1.8l b18c motor. Its all in tuning. Honda motors can hold 600hp on stock sleeves! (for how long who knows) =)

 

[Pennywise]

put a stroked b16 with 11.4 cp, built head, tein ha's light rims, good tires and run some low 13's

 

[HyperGSX]

When did this turn into a DSM vs. Honda thread? I think that the majority consensus is that DSM's can be made faster than Honda's for a lower cost. Everytime this topic comes up, it always goes back to the same conclusion. Who really cares anymore if a DSM can be made faster for cheaper....as long as you like your car i think that's all that matters.

 

[Johnny5]

The easiest way to be fast would probably be to do a B18 swap. A friend of mine had a hatch with B18 and ran 13's. It's relatively cheap as well. A properly tuned Honda can be VERY impressive, don't underestimate them.

 

[UndergroundR32]

What transmission did he use? He still most likely bought a complete car, then bought the GSR B18 engine and ecu and whatever tranny he used, unless it was the stock one. Who did the swap? Because that could be quite a few bucks in labor if you don't know how.

 

[Pennywise]

yeah hondas kick @@@, there just to pricy thats why I'm going dsm. figure you buy a decent hatch for 2k, then get a swap thats about 4-5k depending on what you get. Then you can get bpu's, and expect to pay a good 5-6k to suport a turbo. my friend has spent 10k on his car and he runs high 14's, spend about 2-3k on a dsm and run a 12. Don't forget you HAVE to build the motor becuase it wasn'e intended for a turbo. 10.8:1cp on pump gas! I personally think that hondas strong point is all motor, b/c of there short strokes they can rev high, they weren't ment to suport turbos. you can push a max of 9 lbs on a stock motor.

 

[Johnny5]

Originally posted by UndergroundR32
What transmission did he use? He still most likely bought a complete car, then bought the GSR B18 engine and ecu and whatever tranny he used, unless it was the stock one. Who did the swap? Because that could be quite a few bucks in labor if you don't know how.

I believe it was an Integra LS tranny. Basically, all it had was the swap, intake, exhaust, vtec controller, and a few other minor mods and I personally witnessed him blow the doors off (several car lengths) brand new mustang GT's. Now, keep in mind that's n/a. The owner is a poor white boy, so the entire car costed him only about $6k. Honestly, it impressed me.

 

[Pennywise]

I'd rather put that motor in a fc3s! those damn rotarys allways blow up no matter what you do to them! plus the fc body is classy!