420a Turbo at 180k opinions

[TallestHERETIC]

My advice is to simply keep saving up money and maintain the engine! Definitley boost it. Get all of the supporting mods, too! Turbo and turbo'd engines work better and last longer if everything is up to date and working.

Quick tip: You can usually tell if the engine is good or not just by looking at the engine bay. If it's all nasty/yucky looking, walk away or get it for cheap. Neglected cars will drain your wallet and leave you on the side of the road, EVERY TIME! Alot of things can be done to a car with $500 dollars. It would REALLY suck to spend it on a car and still it runs crappy.

Just remember, people are so quick to make a car FAST but not so quick to make a car LAST. Please do lots of research before doing any major engine work!

 

[mike11743]

okay so after a proper compression test im at about 155-160 in all cylinders. A little better than 120. I got that turbo setup and turns out he left the FMU but everything else is there, even a wideband setup and boost gauge. All i need is the oil inlet adapter plate and the adapter needed to mount the return line to the oil pan. And obviously a FMU

 

[Anubis_4_99]

Mileage means nothing??? Wow, i didnt even think that point was arguable. Plus the throttle being closed will give lower numbers but i dont believe it will cause a difference between cylinders, only an overall lower score. So raise it 20 points its still 140-170. Still out of spec...The motor is scrap, he would be stupid to boost it in its current condition. Especially with 5lbs like some are talking. It would make what like 160hp. You guys are ridiculous.

Mileage means nothing if the engine is HEALTHY.

unfortunately OP, your test numbers, if you did the test correctly, are under the service limit.

So yeah your motor isn't upto par as it should be. You can still boost it, but your motor is tired and will decline until it's time for a rebuild. It's upto you at this point if you turbo it now, or wait untill after the rebuild.

If you rebuild, put out the extra $ for forged internals. That way your engine will last.

 

[91stocker]

The mileage means practically nothing. The OP should do a proper compression test to determine the condition the of motor and go from there.

Your an idiot.

Mileage means nothing if the engine is HEALTHY.

How can you argue that, honestly. At 200k every part of that motor is tired. Plus 5lbs? The only point in that would be for the noise. Ride around mad poppin that bov

 

[Anubis_4_99]

How can you argue that, honestly. At 200k every part of that motor is tired.

And i cant believe anyone from this site would advice him to turbo it. Even a "wiseman". Its a shame really. Plus 5lbs? The only point in that would be for the noise. Ride around mad poppin that bov

Does every car just automatically crap out at 200K? Is that the lifespan of a vehicle period?

I've had motors at 300K, were those dead already and just didnt know it?

Yeah there are components that wear, like belts, pulleys, alternator, waterpump, etc.

But as long as the compression is at an acceptable range, and the engine is otherwise healthy, you can't argue that it is going to blow just because it's nearing 200K.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

But as long as the compression is at an acceptable range, and the engine is otherwise healthy, you can't argue that it is going to blow just because it's nearing 200K.

I agree with you, but you and 91stocker: please keep it civil.

 

[ez@2gnt]

I also agree that mileage does not mean much. I feel you can judge the health of most engines simply by judging the mechanical ignorance of the previous owner. IMO, this is why Ferrari's are so unreliable.

 

[Leonthefaded]

Mileage means nothing, unless maybe your pushing past 200k. Theres a 175k GST pushing around in my area, laying shame to folks.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

Mileage means nothing, unless maybe your pushing past 200k. Theres a 175k GST pushing around in my area, laying shame to folks.

you must not have read anything on this thread. milage is a number. all it effects is the value of the car in the eyes of KBB.

it has no real world meaning in the health of the motor, i have owned over half a dozen cars that were over 250K that ran strong, and still head nearly perfect compression numbers.

and i've owned cars with under 50K with nearly no compression in a cylinder or two.

so again i ask, do cars automatically self detonate at 200k? because if so i've had alot of unicorns.

 

[starfish]

I also agree that mileage does not mean much. I feel you can judge the health of most engines simply by judging the mechanical ignorance of the previous owner. IMO, this is why Ferrari's are so unreliable.

I put 180,000 on a ferrari(308)before I finally cooked the rings.Other then that mishap I never had to touch the motor.and that was my 1st stick.I beat the hell out of her.

 

[ez@2gnt]

Exactly, it's all about the owner. Except for those cases when brand new Ferrari's spontaneously catch on fire, when it doesn't matter who drives it.

 

[starfish]

Exactly, it's all about the owner. Except for those cases when brand new Ferrari's spontaneously catch on fire, when it doesn't matter who drives it.

Must be a west coast thing!fire extinguishers shoud be manditory in all carsMostly those with turbos

 

[empie1]

There are definitely some misconceptions going on in here. While most of you are right, mileage does not directly dictate engine condition, 91stocker is also correct. 175,000 and decent compression numbers makes that a "healthy" engine....but throwing a turbo on and boosting it changes dynamics. Just because a engine has good compression numbers does not make it strong enough to handle the extra abuse boost provides. Weather you guys will admit, 175000+mile rings.bearings..ect will not tolerate abuse like new ones...no arguing there. Therefore, your just building a time bomb...something will most definitely break and your inevitably going to rebuild. Since it sounds like you dont care about reliability, than obviously go for it...why not? What 91stocker is getting at is he feels its pointless to put time and money into something, only to have it be temporary before investing more time and money, thats all...and i definitely am on his side with that. Not that i think what you want to do is wrong, just im not not half assing car projects any more. I spend the money and time and do it right the first time.
With that said, its pretty lame how shit always turns into 420 vs 4g63. Its like you guys go off at the littlest hint of inferiority. So much dumb shit and bad advice being thrown around in here...lame.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Just because a engine has good compression numbers does not make it strong enough to handle the extra abuse boost provides. Weather you guys will admit, 175000+mile rings.bearings..ect will not tolerate abuse like new ones...no arguing there.

That's exactly what it means... The results of a compression test are a direct indication of the condition of the rings.

Why argue for the sake of arguing? The 420A forums here and on 2GNT have members participating in a long tradition of installing turbochargers on high mileage engines. We're speaking from experience, not theory...

 

[Anubis_4_99]

There are definitely some misconceptions going on in here. While most of you are right, mileage does not directly dictate engine condition, 91stocker is also correct. 175,000 and decent compression numbers makes that a "healthy" engine....but throwing a turbo on and boosting it changes dynamics. Just because a engine has good compression numbers does not make it strong enough to handle the extra abuse boost provides. Weather you guys will admit, 175000+mile rings.bearings..ect will not tolerate abuse like new ones...no arguing there. Therefore, your just building a time bomb...something will most definitely break and your inevitably going to rebuild. Since it sounds like you dont care about reliability, than obviously go for it...why not? What 91stocker is getting at is he feels its pointless to put time and money into something, only to have it be temporary before investing more time and money, thats all...and i definitely am on his side with that. Not that i think what you want to do is wrong, just im not not half assing car projects any more. I spend the money and time and do it right the first time.
With that said, its pretty lame how shit always turns into 420 vs 4g63. Its like you guys go off at the littlest hint of inferiority. So much dumb shit and bad advice being thrown around in here...lame.

And while you may or may not have a point, on which i agree with VelocitàPaola in that the compression test is a result of the condition of the internals of the motor.

The fact of this thread is, the guy has other vehicles for DD's, and will be taking this down for a rebuild soon anyway, so why not just go for it?

 

[empie1]

That's exactly what it means... The results of a compression test are a direct indication of the condition of the rings.

Why argue for the sake of arguing? The 420A forums here and on 2GNT have members participating in a long tradition of installing turbochargers on high mileage engines. We're speaking from experience, not theory...

I cant help but laugh at the "advice" of a moderator that says as long as compression numbers are good, slap a turbo on your 17 year old n/a and go.... Its fine in this situation cause the kid doesnt care about blowing the engine, but i hope you dont gie that advice to everyone.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I cant help but laugh at the "advice" of a moderator that says as long as compression numbers are good, slap a turbo on your 17 year old n/a and go.... Its fine in this situation cause the kid doesnt care about blowing the engine, but i hope you dont gie that advice to everyone.

Um, ok.

 

[bullettdsm]

I cant help but laugh at the "advice" of a moderator that says as long as compression numbers are good, slap a turbo on your 17 year old n/a and go.... Its fine in this situation cause the kid doesnt care about blowing the engine, but i hope you dont gie that advice to everyone.

I got a chuckle too Staring in the face of real world experience vs your opinion.

Hop on 2gnt and see how many people have done this effectively (when installed properly). Its rather common.

MB

 

[empie1]

I got a chuckle too Staring in the face of real world experience vs your opinion.

Hop on 2gnt and see how many people have done this effectively (when installed properly). Its rather common.

MB

Bud, I owned a na eclipse for 2 years before i realized what a joke they were and sold it. Ive been building pretty fast reliable dsms for over 10 years. I have more real world experiance than half of the people on here. You have no argument that putting a turbo on a 180000 mile car is not comprimising reliability. I could care less about the 100 people on nt forums that boost 5 psi on their 200000 stock engines for 5k miles. I didnt say it couldnt be done, but chances are its not going to last. You nt guys are hilarious. Its so pathetic that if anyone even hints that the 420a is a inferior platform, you all gang up like a bunch of little girls.
Have either of you put a turbo on a stock 180000+ engine and drove it for 50000+ miles? Show me some links. Im not talking about the random guy you "found" on the nt forums....show me some "real world experiance" where either of you personally boosted a high mileage 15+ year old car and drove it daily with no issues. Its not about a 420a or 4g63 its common sense.

 

[dsm144]

Id say boost it but I don't understand the point if he is scared to drive it past 3500 rpm. Obviously he babies the car and even if he sets the boost at 12 psi he wont rev it high enough to get past 2 or 3 psi. I say buy the kit rebuild t throw it on and turn up the boost!

 

[TWOpointFORliter]

Boost away if that's what you want to do. Back when I had my 420a I put a turbo kit (ebay) on at 90k. The engine lasted about 800 miles at 6psi. That made me see the light at the end of the tunnel of which we are not allowed to speak of.

Good luck. I hope you have better results than I did.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

show me some "real world experiance" where either of you personally boosted a high mileage 15+ year old car and drove it daily with no issues. Its not about a 420a or 4g63 its common sense.

I have done this exact thing. Granted not a 420A or a 4G63, but since you said it's not about that, we can move on.

89 honda civic Si hatch, D16Z6 swap, T3/T4 50/63 turbo, precision front mount intercooler, tial wastegate, running 12PSi on hondata.

The car itself had over 200K, the engine about 150K. I drove it daily for over a year and a half with no turbo related breakdowns, and i ended up taking it down for a build myself.

And when i say daily drove, i mean 100 miles a day plus, i lived in a small town and only work opportunity's, were about 50 miles out of town, so 5 days a week i would make the drive, twice. And even sometimes on the weekend to get groceries, see buddys, etc.

And i even took it on a drive from nebraska to utah and back.

So that car, at 150K plus, sporting 12Psi, and being beat down by me daily (and i was not easy on it at all) never had any turbo related problems.

You can argue all you want, but the fact is, as long as its done smartly, and properly, on a healthy engine, it wont infringe on the reliability of the vehicle. But this is where the problem presents itself, 98% of the people who throw a turbo kit on a 15 year old car, dont know the first thing about what they are doing or dont care about doing it right. And that is where the horror stories about "OMFG i turbo'd my car and it crapped a piston" come from.

You can look at certain car's and argue the reliability of a turbo vehicle, like the RX7, where a NT can go 200K plus, and turbo's tend to last less then 150K, but those are also normally issues with the owner not doing required maintenance, beating on the car, and overall not taking care of it. Which will bring the reliability of any vehicle down fairly quickly.

 

[starfish]

Boost away if that's what you want to do. Back when I had my 420a I put a turbo kit (ebay) on at 90k. The engine lasted about 800 miles at 6psi. That made me see the light at the end of the tunnel of which we are not allowed to speak of.

Good luck. I hope you have better results than I did.

12,000 miles since I put on ebay turbo!7psi and still going strong.I just looked at a turbo spyder up the road that is for sale.Its all stock,has 131,000 miles on her.Motor is a piece of crap.I stepped on the gas and i thought the fire department was gonna come from all the smoke.asking $3500Maybe I can use it for a part time job(mesquito control).personally I rather have a american made motor,instead of supporting another countries economy!when guys say dont buy a 420A,its like saying dont buy american!If you like ### crap so much move to japan.Our economy is bad enough!Its because of guys like you that its all f----d up!!!!

 

[empie1]

I have done this exact thing. Granted not a 420A or a 4G63, but since you said it's not about that, we can move on.

89 honda civic Si hatch, D16Z6 swap, T3/T4 50/63 turbo, precision front mount intercooler, tial wastegate, running 12PSi on hondata.

The car itself had over 200K, the engine about 150K. I drove it daily for over a year and a half with no turbo related breakdowns, and i ended up taking it down for a build myself.

And when i say daily drove, i mean 100 miles a day plus, i lived in a small town and only work opportunity's, were about 50 miles out of town, so 5 days a week i would make the drive, twice. And even sometimes on the weekend to get groceries, see buddys, etc.

And i even took it on a drive from nebraska to utah and back.

So that car, at 150K plus, sporting 12Psi, and being beat down by me daily (and i was not easy on it at all) never had any turbo related problems.

You can argue all you want, but the fact is, as long as its done smartly, and properly, on a healthy engine, it wont infringe on the reliability of the vehicle. But this is where the problem presents itself, 98% of the people who throw a turbo kit on a 15 year old car, dont know the first thing about what they are doing or dont care about doing it right. And that is where the horror stories about "OMFG i turbo'd my car and it crapped a piston" come from.

You can look at certain car's and argue the reliability of a turbo vehicle, like the RX7, where a NT can go 200K plus, and turbo's tend to last less then 150K, but those are also normally issues with the owner not doing required maintenance, beating on the car, and overall not taking care of it. Which will bring the reliability of any vehicle down fairly quickly.

I agree...my point being 95% of the time a 15 year old car with 180000+ is not going to be "healthy" enough to support added abuse from a turbo. And a compression test alone should not be the tell all test to determine health for a turbo addition. You guys are basically arguing that a high mileage engine can be just as strong of a platform as a rebuilt/new engine which to me, is retarded. Now if you want to split hairs and say someone could abuse a car for 5k and someone else could meticulously maintain a car for 150k....in which the 150k car would last "longer" than the 5k car...fine. But be realistic...the average old, high mileage car...ESPECIALLY "tuner" cars..have generally been beaten down already and will not hold on for too long after boosting...even with a proper tune and supporting mods....nearly every component of the car still has high mileage.
My question to you is did you really swap a D16Z6 with 150k in your car or did it get swapped a long time ago and you put the miles on it? What internals is it running? All oem, never replaced 150k internals? And when you say "turbo related problems", what problems did you have with the car? With the exception of obvious things like electronics, suspension...ect, lots of things can be effected by boost. Not just blowing a piston.

12,000 miles since I put on ebay turbo!7psi and still going strong.I just looked at a turbo spyder up the road that is for sale.Its all stock,has 131,000 miles on her.Motor is a piece of crap.I stepped on the gas and i thought the fire department was gonna come from all the smoke.asking $3500Maybe I can use it for a part time job(mesquito control).personally I rather have a american made motor,instead of supporting another countries economy!when guys say dont buy a 420A,its like saying dont buy american!If you like ### crap so much move to japan.Our economy is bad enough!Its because of guys like you that its all f----d up!!!!

What are you talking about? A huge amount of parts on your car are from japan. And what does that have to do with the debate here? And for the record....saying your ebay turbo has 12k, but your beat engine blows smoke makes your point irrelevant.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

You guys are basically arguing that a high mileage engine can be just as strong of a platform as a rebuilt/new engine which to me, is retarded.

Nobody's arguing that... You're hearing what you want to hear for the sake of arguing.