420a timing

[dsmdonnie22]

i kno this has prob been asked but i couldnt find it but here we go:

i have a 420a im about to put in i dont have lots of money to sink in to it right now but someone told me i can advance the timing 20 dagrees to make it faster off the line is this true if so how far is can i advance it its a stock 420a nothing done to it so can someone help me

 

[bullettdsm]

No, none of that is even close to true.

MB

 

[420a_turbo]

No, none of that is even close to true.

MB

Very, Very untrue, just like bullet said.

Do not change the cam timing at all!

 

[RoninEclipse2G]

Maybe he meant 2*? 20 would mean that things are touching, and not in a good way.

 

[dsmdonnie22]

ok i just trying to get a lil more power with out braking the bank any idea im open to them but at least i kno not to advance it that far

 

[RoninEclipse2G]

Check the NT upgrades here and at 2gnt.com. That'll give you a good idea of what to do with your money so that you can make it go as far as possible.
N/T upgrades- DSMtuners
2GNT.com - Power_Stages

 

[dsmdonnie22]

thanks guys saved me money no bent valves
buying a 3inch exsaust on tuseday and header with test pipe

 

[Fotowntalon]

The best power is by far FREE POWER, aka weight shaving my favorite past time. Just dont go overboard and keep the integrity of the looks. Keep it simple, like spare tire/jack. PS/AC if you feel brave and comfortable with the idea.

 

[dsmdonnie22]

yea spares gone and jack and ac

 

[LD25Delta9]

I would reccomend against the full 3 inch exhaust. I've got a buddy that has one and it is seriously the loudest exhaust I have ever heard and not in a good way. Granted, he has a test pipe, not a cat. If you plan on turning it into a track only car, then I say hell yeah let the crowd know where you're at. But, if you want nice refinement and a clean exhaust note, a good 2 1/2 inch with a nice 3 inch of 4 inch tip is the way to go. Most of us 420a owners can't make the power required for a 3 inch, anyways.

 

[dsmdonnie22]

the reason i was gong with 3 inch is im planning on a $5000 420a motor build up in march witch is going to be a turbo motor so i figured i would just do 3 inch so i dont have to upgrade it then

 

[dsmdonnie22]

ok i was just lookin around and im thinking cams aint to hard on the buget but what do i get motors all stock

 

[bullettdsm]

ok i was just lookin around and im thinking cams aint to hard on the buget but what do i get motors all stock

Not to breaK your balls (because there are plenty of others that will do that ), but can you re-phrase the question using proper punctuation and capitalization? It just makes it easier for us to help you.

MB

 

[dsmdonnie22]

im trying to get more power out of my car it has a 420a in it and i was thinking of buying cams for it what would be a good set of cams to get for it? the motor is all stock

 

[Fotowntalon]

...well, maybe you should give us an idea of your budget and mechanical experiance. A small budget to some is a couple hundred, others a couple thousand. And prices for upgrades very depending on mechanical experiance, aka can you do it yourself, or do you need to pay for it to be done.

*edit*
sorry didnt see the post above saying you are putting 5grand into the motor. To most of us that is breaking the bank twice over But there is a lotta information on here about cams if you seach around. Certain cams are better for NA others for turbo, some flow more, some spool faster. Regardless, you should be doing a ton of research to only invest into mods that you won't remove when you turbo later on down the road.

 

[LD25Delta9]

the reason i was gong with 3 inch is im planning on a $5000 420a motor build up in march witch is going to be a turbo motor so i figured i would just do 3 inch so i dont have to upgrade it then

You wouldn't need to upgrade to it then, either. 5 grand into a 420a still won't warrant 3 inch exhaust. Still, though, do what you do. I won't knock anybody. I think that if you want to upgrade some stuff to support your turbo build, look into a bigger Throttle Body, Mega Squirt, Cat-Back Exhaust (no headers, they flow fine from the factory and it's a waste of money if you plan on turbo) Test Pipe, Light Weight Underdrive pulley, upgraded Valve-Train, maybe a upgraded Intake Manifold, and port n polish the head. I'm not sure what your budget is for now, but that is a good start.
If you are looking into cams go with a stage 2 from Crower if you have to get one now. When you do put your turbo on, the stage 2 will give you a little more power, but you'll sacrifice spool time in comparison to the stock ones.

 

[Fotowntalon]

You wouldn't need to upgrade to it then, either. 5 grand into a 420a still won't warrant 3 inch exhaust.

I'm pretty sure the rule of thumb for the 420a is stick with 2 1/2 for NA, go 3 for turbo applications

 

[RoninEclipse2G]

I'm pretty sure the rule of thumb for the 420a is stick with 2 1/2 for NA, go 3 for turbo applications

EdZachery

 

[LD25Delta9]

The reason they tell you that is because of flow."The bigger your exhaust is the better it flows" Until you're making 400+ horse, you don't need it. 2 1/2 flows fine. The 3 inch exhaust is a myth for us 420a owners. It's really hard for us to make the horse that requires 3 inch. I don't just like to talk out of my ass. Like I said, do what you do, I won't knock anyone for their ideas. People are gonna want what they want. I just don't want people mis-informed that they HAVE to have 3 inch if they go turbo. 2 1/2 will work fine until they hit some high horsepower numbers.
Rule of Thumb doesn't apply to cars. The rule of thumb was a law given to settler husbands, that they could not beat their wives with a stick any wider than their own thumb. It was a nice way of telling women of that time that we cared enough not to beat them senseless, but not enough that we wouldn't beat them silly.

 

[Fotowntalon]

as i said before, depending on how well mechanically inclined he is, he could be making a good 400hp with 5grand into the engine. Of course that would be peicing together his turbo, instead of going straight hahn, and doing all the work of internals himself and etc. himself. regardless, i don't see going 3inch with a turbo hurting at all if he ever did hit the numbers in the future. But yeah, if you don't go turbo you will be hurting yourself with a 3inch because you need that backpressure.

 

[RoninEclipse2G]

you need that backpressure.

I really hate when people make that mistake.

Backpressure is ALWAYS bad, it means that the exhaust is getting bottlenecked somewhere it shouldn't and is getting pushed BACK (hence the name backpressure) up the exhaust stream. Turbos and cats cause backpressure. Crush bent piping causes backpressure. A banana shoved up the tailpipe causes backpressure. In a perfect world you don't want any backpressure, period.

What you DO need is piping that isn't so big that it hurts your exhaust VELOCITY. If your exhaust is too big the flow actually slows down and you lose the negative pressure waves that actually sucks the exhaust out of the cylinders. That effect is called scavenging. High end NA tuners work very hard to use proper pipe sizing and runner lengths for their exhaust systems because it can actually make quite a big difference on a high strung engine.

When you run a turbo you don't worry too much about scavenging because the boost more than makes up for the fact that 99% of turbo manifolds are unable to take advantage of it.

So remember kiddies, it's not backpressure that you need, it's proper exhaust velocity and scavenging

 

[Fotowntalon]

learn something new everyday , sorry for the mistake.