420a able to run 15-20psi boost?

[zack77x]

so, say i want to rebuild my 420a to run turbo
i want to run about 15psi but id like it to be able to handle 20 if i ever wanted to upgrade
would good 8.8:1 pistons and eagle rods make my bottom end strong enough to handle this?
would i need to get bigger injectors?
also, is a tuning device like megasquirt needed?

thanks in advance for any help

 

[LiquidX]

Searching does wonders

Since you are unaware of parts out there, Eagle rods are capable of 700 HP, I think they are rated at 600HP now out of the box.

You always need larger injectors as your small 275cc or so won't handle anything. I believe you will also need a FMU and I'm unsure of any real parts you actually will need. Someone that has done a turbo swap will be able to give you more information.

However, IF you looked at the forum list, you should have noticed this section on there.
420A Turbo Conversion

The warning that was handed out to you by a moderator was due to improper spelling and/or grammar, so you may want to use the shift key and spell check.

 

[jj2gdsm]

for sure bigger injectors

 

[JusMX141]

You're supposed to title the thread with your question, regardless of whether you're a new member or not. Anyone with eyes can see that you've joined the site in the past three days.

Please edit your thread title to contain your question to attract other members who may be educated on the topic.

 

[zack77x]

Dang, this is a serious forum place.
Sorry for any mistakes, like I said, im new and dont know all the rules around here just yet.
Anyways, I have done the search and seen all the posts in the 420a turbo conversion section but couldnt find anything specific to running 15psi and what size injectors you would need.
What size injectors would be good to go with?

 

[LiquidX]

Try doing a "title" search instead of a "post" search. You'll find better results usually.

You agreed to the rules when you signed up assuming you read over them when you clicked on the check box to agree to them. It's also noted as rule #5 above the quick reply box as well.

I can say that you will want at least 450cc injectors which are the stock size on the turbo DSM. However you will most likely want to bump up to 650cc injectors depending on what turbo you are going to be running 20 psi on. 20psi on a T25 (shouldn't exceed 15psi on the T25 anyway) is not flowing the same amount of air as 20psi on a 16g.

 

[JusMX141]

Dang, this is a serious forum place.

We are the DSM Marines, that is correct. We tend to run a pretty tight ship.

Sorry for any mistakes, like I said, im new and dont know all the rules around here just yet.

That is fine, but the rules are there for everyone to read....it's not like we keep the rules a secret.

would good 8.8:1 pistons and eagle rods make my bottom end strong enough to handle this?

Sure.

would i need to get bigger injectors?

Of course....the stock injectors are designed to service an engine that never sees positive manifold pressure.

also, is a tuning device like megasquirt needed?

Any time you change the injectors to a size that is not what came in the car from the factory (larger or smaller), you will need some type of tuning device to compensate.

 

[Detroit Style]

Boost is an irrelevant number, its a measure of restriction and means nothing when we don't have info on what turbo you will be running or any info on the motor iself. 15psi on a t25 is not the same as 15psi on any other turbo.

 

[zack77x]

I will be using A big 16g turbo
And im not too familliar on the diffrent tuning devices, i assume megasquirt is the best route but dang...thats alot of money! Is there any other, less costly possibilites?

Would some stock 3g63t injectors fit on this motor? Or any stock turbo dsm injectors?

 

[Detroit Style]

I will be using A big 16g turbo
And im not too familliar on the diffrent tuning devices, i assume megasquirt is the best route but dang...thats alot of money! Is there any other, less costly possibilites?

For a stand alone, Megasquirt is cheap! If you are trying to do this on a tight budget, walk away before its to late. You will end up spending the same amount of money two or three times before you realize you should have done it right and not stuck to a small budget that forces you to use cheaper parts.

Also, a big 16 at xpsi would not be the same as a big 16 at the same boost on another motor. Like i said, boost is a measure of restriction in the intake path. Head flow, intake flow, plenum design, runner length, runner volume, etc, all change the boost reading. Ideally, you want to be able to run the lowest amount of boost to make x amount of power. At least to put it in dumb dumb terms.

There is a lot of reading and learning to do before, you tackle a project like this. Personally, Id read up on the Neon forums and see what they did, where they found the limits of certain combinations, etc.

 

[zack77x]

Do i need a standalone to do this though?
And the neon forums? hmm..never thought of that one, ill be sure to read up on those
Thanks

 

[Detroit Style]

Do i need a standalone to do this though?
And the neon forums? hmm..never thought of that one, ill be sure to read up on those
Thanks

No, you dont need a stand alone. A good piggy back will work, such as the GReddy Emanage. Either way you go, you will need to control fuel and ignition. If the Neon people have something like the Honda guys do with Crome, Neptune and other free open source software, I don't know. Even with those, you don't get all of the capabilities as a nicer set up would give you.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Do i need a standalone to do this though?
And the neon forums? hmm..never thought of that one, ill be sure to read up on those
Thanks

The Mega Squirt is the best option for the 420a there is no way around it. The Hahn portfueler is a little more user friendly but more expensive. If you want to push 15 to 20 psi you probably want to stick with a external wastegated turbo to avoid boost creep. Just IMHO it sounds like you are just starting your project car so I would take it slow. Build you block for boost first and read this for some guidelines.

2GNT.com - Power_Stages
Read all the power stages.

Then it's time to learn about turbos.

TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech101
Then
TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech102
Then
TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech103

Then you need to set a realistic HP goal and what you want your car to do (spool fast/spool slow more boost). PSI is a horrible way to set power goals because your HP can change at the same psi if you change factors like fuel type and how cold the air is just to name a few. Again you are free to do what you want, however, IMO get to 5 to 8 psi then work on getting to the next step. Think about it in stages unless you wanna dump 7,000 bucks right away.

This will get you a a pretty good idea of the cost getting to 8psi.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-turbo-conversion/366603-end-all-parts-list-go-turbo.html

By the way people refer to Psi more for a reference on what their car can handle IE. "Before I can go above 8psi I need to forge the internals and upgrade my fuel and ignition system" NOT "I need to be twice as fast so I need XXPsi".

Maybe I sould save this to a word document because I end up typing it out every other day.

 

[1991GSXAWD]

I agree, megasquirt is your best bet with more tunability. You can also adapt a a harness from a old school turbo Chrysler car if you are good at wireing but in the end it will cost just as much.

 

[oldman420]

AEM FIC would do the trick as well. Megasquirt can be pretty overwhelming if you are new to tuning and electrical.

 

[Misterbeechy]

megasquirt... or using an sfmu

 

[Detroit Style]

AEM FIC would do the trick as well. Megasquirt can be pretty overwhelming if you are new to tuning and electrical.

Not so much anymore, they offer more and more plug and play units, and with auto tune, anyone can get the car tuned to the point of making some power, while still being safe.

 

[gst96spyderman]

simply out of curiosity... couldn't he use n apexi safc?

 

[oldman420]

simply out of curiosity... couldn't he use n apexi safc?

Won't be able to make enough adjustments to compensate the fuel.

To be honest the last time i used megasquirt was almost 2 years ago, so most likely im sort of out of the loop. My room ates nt w/ turbo runs great and was the most affordable option at the time after having to yard out all the old megasquirt stuff.