Wanting to run 20psi daily

[Chase_Smith40]

I have a 1990 Plymouth Laser RS, I am in the process of a rebuild, I Currently have a 20g turbo stock fuel system, tubular manifold, stage 3 clutch, aftermarket boost gauge, 3inch downpipe to 3 inch test pipe to 2.5 cat back. I want to go full 3 inch, upgrade injectors and fuel pump, FMIC, turbo timer. What do i need to do be able to run 20psi safely? I was previously running 16psi just shy of fuel cut with a MBC.

 

[Dsmkauai]

You need ecmlink and the fuel to handle he boost! Once you get the fuel to handle all you need to do is tune it to be safe and running 20psi daily is nothing really! Don't forget a wideband is a very important tool to be able to tune accurately, so along with ecmlink I would grab a wideband. What other plans do you have for the car?

 

[codym]

It all depends on you, the driver. You can have all the supporting mods you want, but a proper routine maintenance schedule is key to keeping any daily driver reliable.

While 20psi isn't a rediculous amount of boost, it's enough to cause damage to the engine/transmission if you go out and romp on it every day without paying close attention to your DSM.


Take a look at the dsm upgrade path's at the bottom of the page, this will give you an idea of some great maintenance practices to use, as well as some supporting mods you'll need.

 

[Phantom DSM]

All the tuning measures and advice above is useful and will help you out in having an all around ready setup. You will start noticing that pump gas will be your limit before fully realizing you power potential. You need at least 650cc injectors and you will probably max them out with dsmlink in my experience. Keep in mind im referring to 91 octane piss gas,
I could get 94 octane in Dallas, Houston,etc. when im in those areas during the summer, so lucky....

 

[Jon91TSi]

I have a 1990 Plymouth Laser RS, I am in the process of a rebuild, I Currently have a 20g turbo stock fuel system, tubular manifold, stage 3 clutch, aftermarket boost gauge, 3inch downpipe to 3 inch test pipe to 2.5 cat back. I want to go full 3 inch, upgrade injectors and fuel pump, FMIC, turbo timer. What do i need to do be able to run 20psi safely? I was previously running 16psi just shy of fuel cut with a MBC.

16# on a 20g with a stock fuel system.....

 

[mantega4g63]

overbuild your fuel system and get an intake tube + filter

 

[Chase_Smith40]

My plans for the vehicle is to be a daily driver in the summer and an occasional trip to the Milan Dragway. And why the eye roll about 16psi?

 

[agentorange313]

My plans for the vehicle is to be a daily driver in the summer and an occasional trip to the Milan Dragway. And why the eye roll about 16psi?

20g opens up after 18-19 psi, 20+ is the best for the 20g wheel. a 20g at 16 psi is just laggy, would feel like a 16g with exhaust leaks or wastegate no sealing issue.

I would focus on your fuel system upgrade, most important part I see people skip over or not properly upgrade. Heres a link to help with that:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/366003-injector-fuel-pump-supported-airflow.html

Now all you need to do if find how much the compressor wheel at your desired psi, and see what fuel system upgrade you need.

But without tuning software or some kind of datalogging/tuning device, I wouldn't upgrade anything else. You will hear most preach ECMlink, I run it, its awesome, but use what you feel most comfortable with. Wideband and datalogging/tuning device.

 

[T is for TURBO]

And why the eye roll about 16psi?

Because 16psi on a 20g is too much boost for a stock fuel system.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Because 16psi on a 20g is too much boost for a stock fuel system.

Bingo.

16psi on a 14B at my altitude is enough to hit fuel cut on a 65* day when stock. I made 250whp/260wtq at that boost back in 2008-2009:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Wikipedia puts your listed town elevation @ 800ft, about the same as mine.

Please review this:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/422900-things-not-do-14b-450s-boost-turned-up.html

A 20G on a stock 4G63 down here would/should be moving enough to max the injectors by 12-13psi in decent weather.

You are playing with fire, OP. This is in your future (taken from the linked thread):

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[eDeclpse92]

From experience, I would buy bigger injectors than you need because more than likely you might want to upgrade in the future. You can always run larger injectors at a lower duty cycle but you cant do the opposite. That's my advice. Also, I would look into e85 if there are stations near you. Good luck!

 

[Chase_Smith40]

I Plan on upgrading to 750cc injectors and a wlbro 255 is that enough? and intake tube with bigger filter

 

[92AWDHX40]

Just make sure you get it tuned for the power you want, a lot of things to consider when upping the boost.

 

[Chase_Smith40]

Just make sure you get it tuned for the power you want, a lot of things to consider when upping the boost.

I will most likely be getting Link very soon but can i run that setup without it without doing any serious damage?

 

[crash89]

You could get by with maybe some 650s and a SAFC and a 255. Or Link would be the obvious best solution. 20 psi is good for well into the 300whp range. Im pretty sure right now your IDC are also pretty high right now and that means you're already pretty lean.

<<<<< the dyno numbers over there are when I was on a 20g, with bolt in cams, fmic, 3" exhaust and a 255, ~14 psi. I was able to log the pulls, 3rd gear fuel cut and 4th netted the 297 wheel and IDCs were 120+ Definitely no bueno!!

 

[Chase_Smith40]

So if i run the FIC 750's, a wally 255, and a AFPR i can run it still but only limited to what they will put out without link. i plan to do link but will probably be Daily driving it for like 2 months before link i should be okay?

 

[2slow4now]

You can find all kinds of calculators and information all over the internet to know if it will be the right set up.
Find out about the turbos air flow capabilities and what air fuel ratio you want to run and use a calculator to find out the proper injector size. Say a 80% duty cycle that most guys would say is ok or safe.

Some ideas from some quick searches.
Flow Calculator
Turbo and Supercharger Maps
RC Fuel Injection


Take a look at someones mod sheet that is running a 20g. That would get you close. Do you trust strangers though? Do the leg work yourself then you will know for sure.

I never ran a 20g but a quick look says about 650cfm, 44lbs/min

Good luck and dig away!

 

[Chase_Smith40]

You can find all kinds of calculators and information all over the internet to know if it will be the right set up.
Find out about the turbos air flow capabilities and what air fuel ratio you want to run and use a calculator to find out the proper injector size. Say a 80% duty cycle that most guys would say is ok or safe.

Some ideas from some quick searches.
Flow Calculator
Turbo and Supercharger Maps
RC Fuel Injection


Take a look at someones mod sheet that is running a 20g. That would get you close. Do you trust strangers though? Do the leg work yourself then you will know for sure.

I never ran a 20g but a quick look says about 650cfm, 44lbs/min

Good luck and dig away!

FWD i have to digs hahaha a guy last summer in his B18 swapped Honda DX wouldnt race me from a roll because he said that his was better from a start then a roll?
I plan to do some calculations and if it was not for learning from strangers than this site would be pointless

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

So if i run the FIC 750's, a wally 255, and a AFPR i can run it still but only limited to what they will put out without link. i plan to do link but will probably be Daily driving it for like 2 months before link i should be okay?

You need to keep boost low, very low. As in high single digits, max of 11-12psi with what you have told us currently. The ceiling for power is pretty low in ideal conditions on a stock setup, but a 20 year old pump/wiring, possible build up in the filter, etc. all decrease the amount of fuel that will actually get to the rail, increasing your IDCs across the board.

Save up for Link V3 Full or Lite and a proper Wideband gauge kit.

After maintenance, those two things should be the very first mods on any DSM.

You can install the 255LPH pump and AFPR now to help provide a bit more headroom, $30 pump rewire should be part of your pump install. I would also encourage you to delete the banjo bolt fuel line between the stock filter and fuel rail as well.

There are adapter fittings that include an 1/8NPT port for a fuel gauge.. this would be a wise investment. Being able to check and confirm on a stock FPR is extremely useful, but it becomes necessary when you add an adjustable regulator into the system.

Until you have a way to tune fuel cut is still a very real problem. Without a way to tune, you cannot use larger injectors.

 

[2slow4now]

Yeah I get you Chase. I just threw some stuff your way so you could take off from a roll. beep beep beep

And agree with Darth as well. The computer has to know what you changed. If your going to drive without a tune then keep the stock fuel injectors and turn the boost down to stock levels until you can get a tuning solution. Once you have a way to tune for the bigger injectors and more air flow then you can start working it up.

and yeah what he said. ^

 

[darthvadar tsi]

So if i run the FIC 750's, a wally 255, and a AFPR i can run it still but only limited to what they will put out without link. i plan to do link but will probably be Daily driving it for like 2 months before link i should be okay?

you might as well wait until you have link to put the injectors and fuel pump on without a tune those injectors will be paper weights .

 

[Dsmkauai]

To o.p. you can't just throw in bigger injectors without a way to tune them! Your better off getting everything you need to upgrade safely and do it all at once! I think you need to get the 20psi idea out of your head until your setup is ready! My good friend has all supporting mods to run 40-50psi boost no problem. He even tried to push it that high with bad results, wanna know why?? Because he didn't have a proper tune to handle that much boost! His car actually ran horrible till he listened to me and turned the boost down, so I could get a good tune started for him. He thought it was so cool to tell everyone he could run 40psi, but his car couldn't even make it down the 1/4mile !! What I'm trying to say is its not just about how much boost you run bro! There's so much more that needs to be considered here to do things the right (safe) way!

 

[Chase_Smith40]

okay so with my wideband setup i need to buy i already have a 3inch downpipe do i have to buy a different one for the o2 bung cause if so that sucks ass

 

[Dsmkauai]

Once you get link you can use your wideband in the front sensor bung and simulate the narrow band. Depending on which wideband you get it may allow you to simulate also, then there's no extra bung needed unless you want to add one.