420A > 4G63 with ALOT of work???

[miamieclipse]

And yes i am just messing with you, crankwalk is not as common as ppl make it out to be ..... please look at me, i am one of 2 420a's in a Miami DSM meets in the misdts of 15 turbo 1&2 g's ....ohh and a couple of evo's which count as 4g's as well

 

[Doug99RS]

The following is a cut and paste from a thread found on a local board here. The vehicle mileage may vary but the point is still there. Before reading it though I'd like to bring to your attention the following:
THIS IS A SITE FOR DSM ENTHUSIASTS. NOT ONE THAT PROMOTES DISHARMONY AMONGST FELLOW DSMer's IF YOU WOULD TAKE THE TIME TO READ ALL THE OTHER THREADS THAT PUT THE 420A AGAINST THE 4G63 THEN YOU WOULD SEE THE FINAL OUTCOME. NOT ONE ENGINE BEING BETTER THAN THE NEXT BUT INSTEAD THE THREAD IS LOCKED. WHY? BECAUSE IT'S POINTLESS. IF YOU WANT TO SEE WHO WOULD WIN AT THE TRACK, LOOK AT THE 1/4 MILE TIMES AND THE ENGINES IN USE. QUIT TAKING UP FORUM SPACE ONLY FOR IT TO BE LOCKED DOWN.


Here's my take on the situation.
At 94K miles you could easily see 150K with proper maintenance, Bolt-on mods that don't include turbo or Nitrous Oxide and learn alot about your car in the process without spending a grand.
Simple mods would include the following and their gains:

5-8 hp gains maybe:
Adjustable Cam gears
Performance computer (Be careful about timing advancement and turbo use)
Throttle body
Lighter wheels
UDP

3-5 hp gains per mod:
CAI
Cat-Back
Header (would be a waste if going turbo)
High Flow Cat

Idle improvement, better fuel economy, prep for future power adders:
Coil pack
Wires
Plugs
AFC

Handling improvement that will let you maximize what hp you have:
Sway Bars
Tokicos

The simple fact of the matter is that with 90K miles and probably no air/fuel induction type services you probably have alot of carbon build-up on the valves and intake system. Exhaust valves on these things tend to get heavily pitted and are the first to burn. Increase the temps in the combustion chamber and the pitting increases.

If the valves aren't already in need of lapping then they will be real soon with NOS or Turbo use. The piston rings on the cars are pretty resiliant and haven't been the leading cause of compression loss issues. The pistons are light and made of aluminum and silicon. In an N/A situation you won't see any problems out of these pistons at all. Run them too hot though with improperly tuned turbo or nitrous and they become brittle and crumble.

In addition to what the pistons are made of the rings have worn and allow some loss in compression the more miles you rack up (100K) or more. So now you've got valves and piston rings that are good for N/A cars for another 50-100K depending on maintenance habits in the past and those in the future but add more pressure and higher temps and you're just asking for trouble.

The plain truth of the matter is that there's not alot of people out there that maintain their cars well enough to be able to get their full money's worth out of these turbo kits that are available for us.

There's been a long and heated battle between the 4g63 and the 420A owners as to how much each one can handle and it's simply not a fair battle. If you buy a 420A brand new from the factory and put a turbo on it the day you buy it THEN and ONLY then can we argue this battle with some accurate stats and experiences. But the simple fact of the matter is that most everyone that is putting on these turbo kits already has used up half of their engine's life and think that a simple compression test is enough proof that their engine can handle boost or NOS.

If you want to enjoy your turbo kit on the 420A then here's what you need to do. Pull the head, relap all the valves, put in performance springs and retainers, put on an MLS Headgasket, pull out the pistons, put new rings on it, hone the cylinder walls, and slap it all back together. Then you're at least starting with a combustion chamber that is sealing top and bottom, valve springs that won't allow alot of carbon build up (which promotes valve pitting) and then put on your turbo kit within a couple thousand miles of the rebuild. THEN and only then will you be able to enjoy the 3K you are going to spend on the turbo kit for at least 2-3 years. At which point you may grow tired of it and upgrade to something better that will be out then.
Doug

 

[dr1665]

IT'S POINTLESS. IF YOU WANT TO SEE WHO WOULD WIN AT THE TRACK, LOOK AT THE 1/4 MILE TIMES AND THE ENGINES IN USE. QUIT TAKING UP FORUM SPACE ONLY FOR IT TO BE LOCKED DOWN.

You are now my favorite poster over here.

 

[98RedGs]

We know why this is closed...
If you don't just drop Doug or DR a pm...
They can more than happily tell you why.
Unless you search... then if you do no pm's are needed.

*closed*