30HP difference in different motors?

[myfirstTALON]

I read some where on here that there are (3) different 4g63 motors,
NA 4G63 (135hp) , 4G63T (195hp) , "special" NA 4G63 (165hp).
Supposibly this "special" 4G63 had 300cc injectors and a turbo intake camshaft that were
different from the regular NA 4G63. This is my question has anyone or can some one just bolt on 300cc injectors and an turbo intake camshaft to get a 30Hp gain ?

 

[SpoolnTsi]

Ive seen a NA cyclone motor. Dont know whats different bout them or the hp on them. Maybe thats the 165hp one your talking bout

 

[4geze63]

never heard of it

4g63 nt 145 hp
4g63t 1g 195hp
4g63t 2g 210hp

 

[WalkedTalon]

There is only one TRUE cyclone engine, some intake manny's will say cyclone and not mean anything, the only way to tell the diff. is to look at it, cyclone will have dual runners a "fake" cyclone will not

 

[drufener07]

never heard of it

4g63 nt 145 hp
4g63t 1g 195hp
4g63t 2g 210hp

is this correct?

 

[DSM1G90]

Numbers a little high for the NT .. thought it was 132 HP @6K rpms. The other two are what the factory got out at a certain rpm range.

You don't need HP, but torque to get the power to the wheels. Why people do the 'stoker' options to increase torque (power) to the wheels.

NT and turbo 4G63's are almost, what is called "square" motors since the bore and stroke are so close to one another with the stroke three mm's higher than the bore. This arrangement gives out good torque (stroke) to match the HP (bore) at a good rpm range.

Why the 20hp increase with the 2G's is the different turbo that spools quicker and smaller intake runners along with the required use of 91RON fuel.

 

[bastarddsm]

The 165hp n/t 4g63 wasn't a usdm engine. I want to say it was called a 4g63k, or somthing along those lines. It was probably a ### only engine. realistically, it's nothing special. At most it had higher compression, oil squirters to help with detonation, and larger cams to move the power peak up to 7500ish.

A set of 272s in a plain old 4g63 would get out 90% of the way there.

I read about them back in like 03 before I did a turbo swap, but seriously it's nothing special, and you be better off putting some aftermarket stuff on a regular n/t engine.

N

You don't need HP, but torque to get the power to the wheels. Why people do the 'stoker' options to increase torque (power) to the wheels.

, no. You need horsepower. A 500hp engine with 200ft lbs of torque is waaaay faster than a 200hp engine with 500ft lbs of torque.

 

[spawn87]

i agree with bastrddsm. i rather have higher hp than tq. since most of the torque is mainly used at the dig. once car is moving its a hp from there. plus the stroke builds is not to increase the tq thats just a benefit.. its more towards increasing spool rate of those larger laggier turbos. plus more displacement= more horse power.

as for the 30hp difference i say no its not that easy. if it were way more people with the 4g63n/t would be doing it. you gata tune or compensate for the injector difference. given that the cam will more likely give you faster reving and more air into chambers theres other elements that will affect if you even get close to 30 hp like intake exhaust fuel type and cam adjustment.

if im wrong feel free to correct me.

 

[Blindmouse]

And the EDM engine was with 150Hp. With higher CR than USDM N/A models (9.0 vs 10.4). plus added a knock sensor and different ECU..

 

[RadDsm]

Could the "special" one you're referring to be the AMG tuned N/A from JDM Galants? IIRC it produces ~170hp.

 

[bastarddsm]

as for the 30hp difference i say no its not that easy. if it were way more people with the 4g63n/t would be doing it. you gata tune or compensate for the injector difference. given that the cam will more likely give you faster reving and more air into chambers theres other elements that will affect if you even get close to 30 hp like intake exhaust fuel type and cam adjustment.

if im wrong feel free to correct me.

No really, the 165hp n/t 4g63 isn't special, its got 10.4:1 compression, larger cams, and I'm sure a better intake. Nothing that isn't available in the aftermarket.

And the EDM engine was with 150Hp. With higher CR than USDM N/A models (9.0 vs 10.4). plus added a knock sensor and different ECU..

Does that engine have oil squirters? Do you know what cams are in it?

Could the "special" one you're referring to be the AMG tuned N/A from JDM Galants? IIRC it produces ~170hp.

Yeah, thats more than likely it.

 

[Blindmouse]

Does that engine have oil squirters? Do you know what cams are in it?

Oil Squirters: Yes! Cams: I think, regular N/A cams are in that engine..

ohh another thing.. larger injectors.. USDM N/A uses 240cc-s, EDM uses 275cc injectors...

and F5m31 tranny

 

[drufener07]

so what is different between the (4g63 nt 145 hp and the 4g63t 1g 195hp) that gives the 4g63t 1g more hp?

 

[RadDsm]

The 195hp motor is turbocharged, with a few other differences (cams, fuel setup, piston CR, etc...).

 

[agentorange313]

so what is different between the (4g63 nt 145 hp and the 4g63t 1g 195hp) that gives the 4g63t 1g more hp?

Really? the "T" stands for turbo, the forced induction allows for increased hp

 

[drufener07]

so your saying the turbo its self is what gives it more hp the motor is the same or what would the hp be on 4g63t without the turbo on it just the motor?

 

[RadDsm]

If you just removed the turbo, it might make around 100hp. It would be really slow, 7.8:1 and N/A is not a good match.

 

[ColtiXim]

Could the "special" one you're referring to be the AMG tuned N/A from JDM Galants? IIRC it produces ~170hp.

+1 for the AMG tuned 4G63

Also a Galant turbo variant like the RS 240 Hp with 510cc injector and specific Map ECU ( i dont remember the turbo model, maybe 16G ?)

 

[cliffkemp]

If you just removed the turbo, it might make around 100hp. It would be really slow, 7.8:1 and N/A is not a good match.

I can tell you that it is not even 100hp. My old laser blew the turbo on it and at the time, I was broke and just sealed off the turbo junk. Since the compression was so low, the car could barely do 80 down hill on the interstate. Going up a decent hill it would actually barely do the minimum of 40. I had a civic, 91, with around 80 or so horsepower and it would do better than that. The turbo makes a huge difference and it did not help that it was an automatic and have only 4 gears either. For a 3000 2800 pound car to do just 45 up a long but, slight hill, it may have had 75 to 80 at best.

The 420a, by the way, could make around 165 hp with just a throttle body change, better intake, and a pulley with 95 cams from the 95 neon and the upgraded computer.

Horse power is just the ability to keep doing work over a given time. Very simply put:

Torque is force
Work is force times the distance
Horsepower is work done over time

It is the area under the curves, with an S, that matter the most.

 

[Lofty]

so your saying the turbo its self is what gives it more hp the motor is the same or what would the hp be on 4g63t without the turbo on it just the motor?

You have a lot of reading to do my friend, but welcome!

 

[spawn87]

so your saying the turbo its self is what gives it more hp the motor is the same or what would the hp be on 4g63t without the turbo on it just the motor?

some one didnt bother to read the site rules...

you need to read up, all the information is here you just gata find it.

and it sounds like you are not mechanically inclined and pretty new to cars at least turbo models, do your self a favor read about how an engine works then read what a turbo does and then focus on what you have and not what was made in other countries. not trying to sound like im bagging on you but we all had to do it and so do you.

 

[drufener07]

some one didnt bother to read the site rules...

you need to read up, all the information is here you just gata find it.

and it sounds like you are not mechanically inclined and pretty new to cars at least turbo models, do your self a favor read about how an engine works then read what a turbo does and then focus on what you have and not what was made in other countries. not trying to sound like im bagging on you but we all had to do it and so do you.

ya i been trying to read up on this stuff nothing tell me exactly what im looking for and when i ask about it it helps
maybe im doing something wrong or dont understand this site

 

[spawn87]

if you understand engines then you know its many factors that affect power output of an engine like piston design and compression just to start with if you know that then you know they react different to boost. higher the compression more power you can make but less reliable if boosted thats why boosted motors have lower compression to compensate for the boost tacking up need space. also a turbo is building positive pressure something an n/a engine does not on its own. so when messing with these factors an others you get different amount of power by using parts to fit the application.

its not that your not getting the answers its just you havent found them yet cause this place is filled with way to much info and sometimes takes time to find. using search button will help a great deal but still wont safe you the time of reading. its the cold truth

like i mentioned read up on what you have and if you want more power read what others have done the wheel has already been invented all you gata do is follow the instructions.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

The 165hp n/t 4g63 wasn't a usdm engine. I want to say it was called a 4g63k, or somthing along those lines. It was probably a ### only engine. realistically, it's nothing special. At most it had higher compression, oil squirters to help with detonation, and larger cams to move the power peak up to 7500ish.

Yes, you are referring to the 4G63 K which was a 7 bolt and was rated at 167 hp. It came in the 1994 Talon ES SE and only ~250 were sold in the USA. The only difference was 300cc injectors (compared to the N/A's standard 240cc injectors) and long lift cams (may have actually been the turbo cams). Also it may have come with higher compression cast pistons (the standard N/A's were 9.0:1), but I haven't confirmed that.

 

[1stgenracer1993]

from what EVERYTHING ive read about the higher hp n/t is higher compression, 10.5:1 and the stock turbo intake cam, since exhaust cams are the same in either motor (1g at least) I recently installed a stock turbo intake cam in my n/t. I was bored and i got it for free. My 93 has 47500 miles on it so compression is perfect, i dont know what it would do on an older motor lower on comp. It made a HUGE difference in my car. previously i would lose power after 6200 rpm and couldnt rev past 7200, now i have a crazy powerband, i can rev to 7600 which also happens to be my rev limiter...?..??? The power and torque increase is noticably felt. it was crazy. from what ive seen and read, there is slightly more lift and duration in the turbo cam, but it is "timed" differently. ive been told it cuts down on 5 degrees of valve overlap, so as to more air in the motor, idk but could see more compression???? i really dont know how it changed but i know what it did to my car, it is a new beast. if you are looking to make more hp in a n/t start with simple, exhaust intake, and the normal bolt ons and step up to the cam. it makes a fun car, alot more fun.