2k miles on clutch, SLIPPING

[GSLENK]

I was merging onto the highway the otherday, in the rain, and as I was WOT in 3rd on the ramp, I let off, shift into 4th and right around 4-6k rpms the clutch slipped and the engine reved, I backed off a bit, shifted to 5th, same thing, 5-6k rev. (didnt pass 6k because i was aware of it now) It seems like it does this easier in the wet weather than the dry.
Slips only in 4th and 5th around 4-5k under full boost, boost definately dictates slip. A little harder to make slip on hot dry days.
1st and second dont slip, or im not trying hard enough, but i can get full boost without slip. 3rd sometimes does, sometimes doesnt.

My "performance mods" if you can even call them that...
Hallman MBC @14-15 psi
(thats it other than boost, wb, egr delete, vac lines delete...)

History of car:
Grandpa driven.
clutch replaced at 23k. (has ~25k when it started slipping)

CLUTCH HAS 2-3K miles on it WTF

Heres what the invoice from the previous owner reads:
"Customer states clutch slipping, Inspected, found Clutch seized. Replaced Clutch disk, Pressure plate, Throw out bearing"
Parts-$400 (MU47735-1B)
Labor- $740
(I would hope they would do a good job for that price smh)
All done at a Fitxgerald dealership, In Gaithersburg MD (nicer part of MD) well before it was even being thought of being put up for sale. (this was done in 2008, I got the car this year and 300 miles later)

So my question is/are:
Is it slipping from bad install/sh!tty clutch kit/overpowered/other?
Am I really overpowering with a essentially stock dsm w/ 14psi?
It is out of adjustment? (i hope this is it)

I did some searching, I found RRE adjusting method, ill search the vfaq too.
Any other resources?

Im really dissapointed. a oem spec clutch should last for a lil bit, and a lil more hp than stock... especially if done at a stealership.

It a lot of info I know, where do i start? Im used to clutches lasting practically the life of a car.

I looked up the part number... $130 clutch... installed for $1k, robbery.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I know how you feel, my clutches only last one summer too. But I probably get a hundred 1.7sec 60's out of each one.

 

[Boostinsideways]

If it was done at a dealership, take it in to see if it will be under warranty. But a number of things can contribute to clutch slipping.

Glazed Pressure plate or flywheel.
Grease/oil on surfaces prior to install.
Improper break in procedure
Horsepower/Torque output exceeds clutch's capability.

 

[zcoh2gdsm]

just and fyi, high gear pulls aren't good for clutches on a day to day basis, if you want to do pulls in high gears do it on a drag strip where every so often its not so harmful. me and my buddy both went through a clutch in maybe 2500-3000 miles and learned that out the hard way.

 

[GSLENK]

I dont really beat on it. I was just merging aggressively at first because the short 30mph ramp goes to a 70+ mph highway where a bunch of jackasses will rearend you for slow accelleration and the merge area is really short, like 100ft maybe 200ft tops

Anyway, one i felt the slip i did it like 6 more times in different gears to confirm it was in fact slipping and i wasnt being lazy and leaving my foot on the pedal.

The Previous owner had this done, ant thier dealership 3 years ago... I doubt its still under warranty.

Could I pull the inspection plate to check it out? anything i could look for or do without dropping the tranny, because once it come to that i will want to have a clutch PP, TOB etc ready to go in.

I dont repeatedly go fast. I also tried to avoid slipping it entirely, pretty easy to do since it does only slip at full boost in 4th/5th. no slipping in 1st or 2nd regardless of WOT or boost (usually one means the other...)

 

[dsmdream]

This is probably a far fetch but have you tried adjusting the pedal? My clutch acted similar to yours and all it took was a little adjustment. Its probably not the case if you pedal feels fine, but i figured i would put it out there.

 

[Talondvr]

This might help, unless of course you've seen it already. I don't think anything inside the trans/clutch you can really see w/o dropping it. Basically just the hydraulics system.

Proper Clutch Adjustment - YouTube

 

[GSLENK]

cool I just finished watching it.... Will do tomorrow. Also... I guess I will go ahead and flush/drain, and bleed the trans cylinder fluid? any name brand name to go with that autozone sells?

Just finished adjusting... the rod was waaaayyyyyy out. I screwed it almost all the way in, backed it out a tad so that the slave still compresses. About to take it for a test pull. I dont exactly see how this would cause/prevent slipping. All it seems like im doing is taking up slack between the pedal and hydraulics. When you press the pedal, it releases the clutch. when you release the pedal, the PP holds the clutch to the flywheel... that lack of pressure causes slipping (no?). Am I missing something here?

Depending on how my test pull goes, what are some other causes of slipping during peak power in higher gears? What mods should the stock clutch handle? How much slipping does it take to glaze a clutch and send on its path towards forever slipping?

btw, thanks for the pointers thus far.

On the side I was having fun finding the rod to adjust... didnt realize it wouldnt be away from the pedal arm

AFTER TEST DRIVE:

I really liked how the properly adjusted pedal felt. Shifts seem a little smoother like im seperating the clutch and PP more (if that makes any sense).

but... I was still able to get a slip in 4th. Rush hour wont permit me to try 5th. I dont think i slipped 3rd.

Maybe its the awsome temperature outside (55-60*F) keeping things stickier.

Oh well. What else can I do about this slip? The clutch does grab again around 6k. so the slip is a quick jump from 4-6k.

 

[mazda-man]

You won't want to hear it but replace the clutch. If it died that soon it was either not broken in properly or not installed correctly. It is also a very slight chance it is just a bad clutch but it does happen. With any of these you still will have to drop the transmission out to fix the problem. Once you have the tranny out it should be apparant what the problem is. Good luck.

 

[GSLENK]

sweet, sort of... well Ill try to let this ride out till winter is over, then score a new clutch. Like I said, I have to try to make it slip, and it doesnt slip under normal operation. Time for clutch research...

 

[Anubis_4_99]

sweet, sort of... well Ill try to let this ride out till winter is over, then score a new clutch. Like I said, I have to try to make it slip, and it doesnt slip under normal operation. Time for clutch research...

Not to be an ass, but do you just suck at driving a 5speed?

I had a 90 TSI on 18psi and the factory clutch held fine for over 6 months, i beat the crap out of that car too, sold it too a buddy, he had the car for a year, same clutch.

Were you maybe learning how to drive a 5 speed on this car? because if so you may have glazed the clutch disc or created hotspots on the flywheel. Or both.

More then likely at this point you'll have to remove the tranny and install a new clutch. Dont wait too long though, otherwise you will end up having to replace your flywheel also. Save it now while you can.

The previous owner could have also caused it if he had the car for any amount of time after the clutch was installed.

 

[GSLENK]

I have owned 3 manual cars, and a crotch rocket. the 3 cars were econobox saturns (twin cams \m/) the clutches never went bad. I dont dump clutches ever, I shift into neutral as opposed to ridine clutch in. I engege 1st gear slightly above idle engine speed. I rev match. I never fried the 600cc bike clutch. all cars came to me with 100k+ miles and factory clutches, and those never slipped.

This laser is on its second clutch at ~23,350mi when i bought it. obviously the owner (extreme senior citizen) or his wife (female extreme senior citizen) probably couldnt drive too well, or didnt care because "life is short", and at the end its shorter... anyway, my reciepts indicate that my clutch had less than 1k when i bought the car. Which leads me to:
-The flywheel wasnt resurfaced by the DEALERSHIP that installed the clutch
-A really shitty clutch was installed (see part number in posts above)
-Clutch wasnt "aligned" properly
-Something else is broken and causeing premature wear
-Clutch wasnt broken in (an oem needs breaking in?)
-The PO (or the guy that middle-manned it to me, he owned it for maybe 1 month) sucks at driving for >400 miles.
-I suck at driving ( I really doubt it, but hey, you never know. My experience leads me to believe I dont)

So lets ignore the possiblilty that i suck at driving, and the PO because they no longer exist as the problem. and I dont want this problem with the next clutch I install.

What causes clutches premature slipping? I have 2 ideas, any more?
1 non-resurfaced flywheel or bad step from resurfacing...
2 improper/not-full engagement (something that can be adjusted mechanically)

 

[JAX2Ganey]

Damn, bro. If you need the one I got, hit me up. We can slap that sucker in real quick! Call me and we can figure something out.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

I have owned 3 manual cars, and a crotch rocket. the 3 cars were econobox saturns (twin cams \m/) the clutches never went bad. I dont dump clutches ever, I shift into neutral as opposed to ridine clutch in. I engege 1st gear slightly above idle engine speed. I rev match. I never fried the 600cc bike clutch. all cars came to me with 100k+ miles and factory clutches, and those never slipped.

This laser is on its second clutch at ~23,350mi when i bought it. obviously the owner (extreme senior citizen) or his wife (female extreme senior citizen) probably couldnt drive too well, or didnt care because "life is short", and at the end its shorter... anyway, my reciepts indicate that my clutch had less than 1k when i bought the car. Which leads me to:
-The flywheel wasnt resurfaced by the DEALERSHIP that installed the clutch
-A really shitty clutch was installed (see part number in posts above)
-Clutch wasnt "aligned" properly
-Something else is broken and causeing premature wear
-Clutch wasnt broken in (an oem needs breaking in?)
-The PO (or the guy that middle-manned it to me, he owned it for maybe 1 month) sucks at driving for >400 miles.
-I suck at driving ( I really doubt it, but hey, you never know. My experience leads me to believe I dont)

So lets ignore the possiblilty that i suck at driving, and the PO because they no longer exist as the problem. and I dont want this problem with the next clutch I install.

What causes clutches premature slipping? I have 2 ideas, any more?
1 non-resurfaced flywheel or bad step from resurfacing...
2 improper/not-full engagement (something that can be adjusted mechanically)

Please dont think that i was attacking you in any way, i was just asking a question. I myself learned to drive a 5 speed by buying one and burning through a clutch.

Other causes.

#3 improper driving habits, slipping the clutch, dumping it, riding with the foot on the peddle etc can cause glazing of the disc or hot spots on the flywheel.

#4 improper install (Tech was being lazy, missing guide pins, didnt align clutch properly, etc)

And by the way, yes, a clutch needs broken in, even an OEM.

 

[GSLENK]

Please dont think that i was attacking you in any way, i was just asking a question. I myself learned to drive a 5 speed by buying one and burning through a clutch.

Non taken... Its a due measure. But yeah Im trying to figure out whats going on here. Im pretty sure its not me. Ididnt learn on this car, I learned on others before it. And I would expect an oem to last a while and for up to 15-18 psi like yours did. good to know.

on a side note, while i was learning on the 1991 saturn sl2... I did plenty of 5-6k dumps (car only cost 1k, give me a break...) and i got that mofo nice and stinky a few times at around 120k miles. no slipping. maybe its because the car only has a whopping 110hp though.

 

[Black-Out]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but if the clutch was installed by a noob who didn't wash his hands before handling the disk and didn't use brake cleaner to clean both the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces then yea you will glaze a new clutch no matter how new it is and how good a driver you are. Most times new flywheels and clutch pressure plate surfaces have some form of thin oil on them. Even if they are dry stored (which a lot manufacturuers are going to now) I still use a can of brake clean to make sure the surfaces are properly clean before mounting up and finishing the install....

I rule out the clutch not being centered because in most cases you can't even get the transmission to go into place if the disk isnt' centered largely because the input shaft won't be able to reach the pilot bearing which centers the entire system. This is why you don't slide the transmission in to place then use screws to pull the bell housings together...You'll press out the pilot bearing in the best case scenario or destroy the pilot shaft bearing and have to remove everything and start over in the worst case scenario.

If the pedal adjustment gives freeplay around 5/8ths an inch or so that can be ruled out as well, as there would be no preloading occuring to cause slip durring engaugement. this leaves you with clutch pressure plate spring damage (highly doubtful in a car in that short of a time span),contaminated clutch (most likely if everyone knows how to drive worth a salt) or a shop that didn't do anything honestly,claimed to replace the clutch to take advantage of the elderly couple, then didn't replace anything just adjusted the pedal assembly and rolled it out the back door and charged them parts and labor (which would be a real scary thought if this was the case...but I'd still say highly unlikely).

If your doing the clutch yourself just look for hot spotting on the pressure plate and flywheel surfaces, thats an indication of a contaminated clutch system either by not cleaning surfaces durring installation or by contamination from an outside source (rear main seal, input shaft seal, someone sabotaging the system after the clutch had been installed, by getting oil on the clutch assembly through a view hole or by the clutch fork rubber seal)

Just look at everything thuroughly before you replace the clutch and try not to get everything greasy when you remove it to ensure you pin point the issue and when you go together with it to ensure you don't duplicate it or cause a new issue. There should only be light lubrication on the input shaft of the transmission and on the throw out bearing guide tube sleeve to ensure smooth peddle action and thats it. Anymore than a light film and you run the risk of contaminating the assembly and shortening clutch life...

William-

 

[GSLENK]

Yeah I guess you are right. Now that I know what to look for, I will be documenting my entire clutch install when i get around to it. thanks for letting me know what to look out for.