2g timing, so much reading and still not getting it..

[stiggity99]

Sorry too bother you folks again, but i dont want to ruin (if i havnt already), and fresh top end...here the problem. Tonight, our first try at timing a 2liter 4g63 i was using the steps from the "Haines" manual, and it said, once all timing marks on cams, and oil-pump, and crank line up, apply pressure to the belt with the tensioner pulley, and tighten it down.. then rotate 1/4 counterclockwise, then back to dead on marks, then use the special tool (the one with the vampire teeth), too apply 2.6ft.lbs (31.2inch pounds), then torque it down to 35ft lbs (tensioner bolt), then release the grenade pin. i am using a brand new everything, all pulleys, tensioner, belts, etc..

the VFAQ 2g timing article, says put pressure on the belt , then tighten the tensioner pulley by (hand), then release the grenade pin, then roate 1./4 counter then back to TDC clockwise, then loosen the tensioner pulley, and use the special tool (vampire tool), to tighten the tensioner pulley to 2.6ft.lbs.. well, our first attempt, going from the book, it was all dead on, cams, oil pump, everything, but when we put pressure on the belt, via the tensioner pulley, the exahust camshaft went 1 tooth off.... same with attempt #2, now we ended the night by lining up all the marks, installing the belt, and havnt messed with the tensioner pulley (in regards to tight/loose, etc). Im using a brand new hydraulic tensioner, and have not yet pulled the grenade pin, and im doing this in the car..

once the belt is around the intake cam sprocket, and the exhaust sprocket, and i have clips on them, then routed around the idler pulley, around the oil pump, and crankshaft, and then around the tensioner.... what should i do next. i do have the vampire tool, and, i just dont want to pull this grenage pin, and it extend all the way and become fubard, and then have to take it off, compress it, etc.. i want to try to do it right, and have it run good. I dont want it 1-tooth-off, or to bend my valves... and when the belt is on, (after routinfg everywhere, and before pre-tension), all timing marks are right on... what's next.

Thanks Sooo much, any/everyone.

--Steve

 

[DSM1G90]

what should i do next. i do have the vampire tool, and, i just dont want to pull this grenage pin, and it extend all the way and become fubard, and then have to take it off, compress it, etc.. i want to try to do it right, and have it run good.

Have you got the foot long, threaded 8mm rod tool that gets inserted at the back under the INT cam and threads through the assembly which in turn pushing down the tensioner pulley mounting bracket, which in turns pushes down on the autoadjuster rod, so you can pull out the grenade pin..?

From VFAQ: Remove rubber plug from inner timing belt cover and screw special tool no. MD-998738 (contact Miller Tool for this tool - 800-801-5420, http://www.spxmiller.com/) into the engine left support bracket until it makes contact with the tensioner arm (Figures 5 & 6). (Fig 6 is less accurate, it is a 1G diagram. Fig 7 is a more accurate representation of the tensioner pulley.)

Don't see any mention of this in your post.

 

[stiggity99]

DSM1G:
No, i don't have long threaded tool. Imi not sure if there correct, but i was told i dont need that tool, if im using a new hydraulic tensioner. Setup pre-tension, and oull the pin, (is what i was assuming..but this is asll new to me..)

--Steve

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Don't forget to take the bolt out of the back of the block, and stick a 1/4" extension in the hole to ensure that your rear balance shaft isn't out of phase. That's what I would do next.

 

[stiggity99]

Colt:
I know for certain the oil pump balance shaft is IN-Phaze..

Do you need the long threaded tool??? ### if so, i could make one.. not a problem.. i was told on the ecmtuning forums, that if i can do a head job on these cars, i can do the timing...

After all marks are brouight up, and #1 cylinder is on TDC, and i allign my camshaft sprockets with a straight edge, clamp the belt onto the cam sprockets, and route the belt, and everything is still lined-up, (dead on), what should i do next... taking in consideration that both balance shafts are in phaze, and everything is correct...using a new hydraulic tensioner, do i need the 9/10" Miller threaded tool??? any help is greatly appreciated.

--Steve

 

[DSM1G90]

.. i was told i dont need that tool

Then, someone told you wrong...(yet, there is a way to do it without the tool, but, in your case, the tool would be needed so you know how to do it correctly the first time ..) for right now, you'r so confused on what to do, and this is the missing link that you need to complete your task.

An easier task to get oil pump BS shaft in phase:

Simply rotate the mark on the oil pump sprocket until it is pointing straight up, and let it go. If the sprocket rotates towards (counterclockwise) the timing mark on the engine, the oil pump sprocket is aligned correctly. If it rotates away (clockwise) from the mark, spin the sprocket a full turn and test again, and it should properly rotate towards the mark now. Now line the mark on the sprocket back up with the mark on the engine. This avoids having to remove the rear access bolt entirely.

"PHOOEY" with the screwdriver thing.

I made my own tool. I went to a hardware place, bought a length of 8mm rod and two 13mm nuts. Cut the rod down to length and took the two nuts, spun them on the rod, then jammed the two nuts together on the end of the rod so they are rock tight against each other. This allows a 13mm socket to fit on the end so you can use the socket wrench to turn the adjuster rod that you built.

 

[stiggity99]

DSM1G:

I dont know how to end this thread, but i got the belt on perfectly. eeeheh took us 3 attempts last night, and our 3rd attempt today was a 100% sucess.. now i havnt started the car, but i did spin the motor over 6 revolutions, and everything lined back up correctly.. timing marks on the cams is PERFECT!!

If it runs when i start it, and we didnt bend any valves while trying to get it right, i will close this thread... and post my directions.. (if anyone cares)

thanks alot
--Steve

 

[DSM1G90]

Put it all back together, connect the battery back up, hit the key and enjoy your ride .. and please, let us know on the outcome..

I went through the same on my first belt change for a DSM motor. Figured it was all perfect, put it back together, fired it up and down the road I went...and that was 27K miles ago with my Laser..that I got 4yrs ago.

Good luck - DSM

 

[luv2rallye]

Timing belt tensioning tips: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...5-timing-belt-tensioning-tips-4g63-turbo.html

 

[bryanwheat]

You to NOT need the threaded tensioner tool do do a timing job. The only special tool needed is the tool to turn the center of the tensioner pulley.

 

[DSM1G90]

Or you can put an allen wrench in one of the tensioner pulley holes and use the tensioner pulley bolt with your socket as a pivot point

This is how I did my tensioner pulley .. and did this trick without knowing that this trick was even posted.

True, doing the drillbit trick was a bit cumbersome where I had to go through a few times to finally get it close.

-DSM

 

[stiggity99]

Fired her up 2 hours ago.. no oil leaking.. no coolant, and it started right up. I was hung-up for a few mins, i had an extra plug, near the crank/cam sensor plugs... couldnt remember what plugged in.. DOH!!! Here it was used for my air conditioning.. ehehhehe buti appreciate all the help.

-regards,
--Steve