Resolved 2G No power to the ECU

[KeelesKustome]

Hey i need help

My ECU is not receiving any power to pin 12 or 25, thus causing my car to not wana try to crank and the fuel pump not coming on.
The relay in the dash behind the radio has been changed 3 times and it never makes any clicking noises. This relay also does not have a constant 12v going to it like I think it should even when the key is off.

What's weird is when I probe the fuel pump wire at the ECU with my test light while having the key on acc, the pump will run until I let the probe off.

I have messed with the neutral safety switch with no luck.
On my ECU pinout it says the wire should be black, this is not the case, it is black with a red stripe.

I would like to try and bypass the N switch at the transmission, as it is an automatic 2g, but I can not figure out the wiring schematics on how to do so, and I am unsure if this would allow power to enter my ECU even if I did.

I checked and bypassed the 20amp, 30 amp, and the 100amp fuses under the hood one at a time to make sure this was not my problem, it did not help.
Every now and then I'll hear some clicking coming from where the neutral safety switch is located.

I also changed the ignition switch with no luck.

I also locked and unlocked the car with the key to make sure it wasn't some safety feature,

I also ran a wire from the fuse panel with a constant 12v to the MFI relay where it says 30 amps, as this is suppose to stay charged and it doesn't, with my hard wire it does but has not fixed the problem and the relay still does not click or allow power to the ECU.

I am considering the neutral safety switch, how do you get rid of this on an automatic that is staying automatic?

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I connected the neutral safety wires, red with black stripe big, to the black big wire, nothing changed.

I tried grounding the last mentioned wire, it already had ground and i added one, nothing changed.

I ran from the 30 amp fuse power to the #12 and 25 pin the ECU starts up and shows the CEL light for 5 secs, so that's a sign the ECU is good I do believe. Problem being the relay still isn't triggering the starter and the fuel pump, why?

Also side note, now when the ECU is working, so does my keychain to lock and unlock the doors, I checked to make sure it wasn't the security system again and it is not.

Please shoot me some more ideas to do, as I have swapped every other MFI plug in the car where this one is and it isn't changing a thing, and i know they are good because I have tested them in other spots. The MFI plug seems to not be making it's ground properly, where should i look for this at?

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Okay so here's what I have done, the MFI relay: I added a ground to the side that wasn't getting it for some reason, this allows the starter to now crank over.

Although the CEL light isn't coming on because it's still not getting power, so i add the 30 amp fuse direct path power wire to one of the terminals, i think 25, now the fuel pump kicks on and it turns over and the CEL light comes on for 5 seconds.

I am here by myself so checking for spark is hard, i manage, and i have none.
I can only assume that the relay is messing that up too. I think what the heck is going on with this?

I have swapped this relay numerous times and still nothing, and how come i am not getting fire even bypassing it?



some info I might try that I found.

Here is the short version of what it says to check for the relay.

Section 4-3, Fuel Injection Control Relay Check. (just the relay)
This tests the MPI side of the MPI relay
step 32 - Remove EFI relay
step 33 - Connect battery positive (+) to terminal 10 and battery negative (-) to terminal 8
This should activate the one side of the relay causing it to connect pin 10 to pin 4 and 5
step 34 - Connect voltmeter negative probe to the battery negative terminal, Connect voltmeter positive probe to terminal 4 and then to terminal 5, There should be 12volts at each terminal.
if you do this before step 22 you'll see pin 4 and 5 don't have 12v before hand and do after

This tests the fuel pump side of the MPI relay
step 35 - Connect battery positive (+) to terminal 9 and battery negative (-) to terminal 6
step 36 - Check for continuity between terminals 2 and 3, there should be continuity, next remove the ground lead from terminal 6 and check again, there should be no continuity.
step 37 - Connect battery positive (+) to terminal 3 and battery negative (-) to terminal 7
step 38 - Check for voltage between terminal 2 and the battery ground, there should be 12v
step 39 - If the test results are incorrect, replace relay with new part.

According to this my relay passed, but maybe not.

What this doesn't test is that MPI relay is functioning in the car. For that you need to check that you have 12v at the connector for pin 10 all the time, turn on the ignition switch and verify you have 12v at pins 4 and 5 when the ignition switch is in the run or start position.
If the the relay checked out but you done see 12v at 4 and 5 then you need to look at the ECU and the signals going to it. )

 

[sniver]

You have to figure out where you have power, and follow it backwards to see where it originates. Not an easy task, but you've already figured this out.

If the ecu has power at the mpi pins, and it cranks and does not start you need to see if the injectors or coils fire. Also if the coils are getting power.

Sent from my Droid

 

[KeelesKustome]

gotcha, i got this nifty fault finder out and it should make my life much easier

 

[sniver]

Remember what you have fixed this far. You had no power to the mpi, but you have power to dash lights, I'm wondering if they're related.

I thought at some point you would have found corrosion on a main ground point, or a multi-pin connector that has the nasty green corrosion plaguing it based on hte nature of the problem.

Check for voltage with key on the one pin of the injector plug with the lock tab up, its the left pin, and on the coil plug, the triangular one on pin 3 black w/white. Key on. Tell me what you find.

 

[KeelesKustome]

Alright I'll make note to do just that.
No their hasn't been any corrosion whatsoever, "this suprised the heck out of me as well". I did find a ground under the passenger seat, that should have been attatched to the frame that was off... I fixed it with no results.

I read this from magnus's site:

Due to the inverted cam signal, the injector trigger wires will need to be switched on a 95-96 year ecu.
green pin 1 is now 14
green w/yellow stripe, pin 2 is now pin 1
green w/red stripe , pin 15 is now pin 2
yellow with black stripe, pin 14 is now 15

It then speaks of inverted spark coil signal, and they need the wires switched on the triangle plug as well.
Changing the blue with red stripe, should swap spots with the blue with black stripe wire,

I am assuming my ecu is this year, as it is dsmlink chipped

Could this be why I am not getting fire?

 

[sniver]

Alright I'll make note to do just that.
No their hasn't been any corrosion whatsoever, "this suprised the heck out of me as well". I did find a ground under the passenger seat, that should have been attatched to the frame that was off... i fixed it with no results.

I read this from magnus's site:

Due to the inverted cam signal, the injector trigger wires will need to be switched on a 95-96 year ecu.
green pin 1 is now 14
green w/yellow stripe, pin 2 is now pin 1
green w/red stripe , pin 15 is now pin 2
yellow with black stripe, pin 14 is now 15

It then speaks of inverted spark coil signal, and they need the wires switched on the triangle plug as well.
Changing the blue with red stripe, should swap spots with the blue with black stripe wire,

I am assuming my ecu is this year, as it is dsmlink chipped

Could this be why i am not getting fire?

I've heard dsmlink is able to to select the style of cas input but this is not my department. I don't like it, I don't use it, and I never will.

Some body knows the answer to this, chime in!

 

[KeelesKustome]

I just went back and edited my post i got schooled on and you somehow paste the un-edited version.....

 

[sniver]

Well I fixed it to suit you . "naw"

Check this thread out, I'm not positive if it applies here, but I think it does.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/243505-6-bolt-swap-dsmlink-inverted-cas.html

 

[KeelesKustome]

I'm now considering my alternator , even though it hasn't been running, it may be the culprit for the dash lights staying on, as it's not surging the power off.

 

[sniver]

Ahhhh, ok? I have no idea where your going with that one. While your at it check your left rear tire for 29 psi as well?

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[KeelesKustome]

come on:

I googled the dash lights staying on with the key removed from the ignition, and I found hundreds of non dsm related threads, where a bad alternator, wouldn't close a circuite allowing power to pass through to the car,, making the dash lights stay on. I'll probably just un-hook the alt, and see what happens.


At this point the psi in my tire just might be the main cause:

I have another ecu on it's way, a member here helped me out for a $35 98 ecu
I also have the RRE cas wiring harness on it's way as well.
I may be purchasing the oe radiator fans and untampered with engine harness today, I'm just a little leary because the guy doesn't have any feedback, but has been on here since 2008 with only 3 posts.

just noticed my tps is reading 162 ohms,,, about to replace it with a new one.

okay i have some new findings.

Tonight i removed the bypass power wire i had made for the mfi relay to check my tps. in doing so i noticed when i was checking voltage that pins 1and 2 when touched would make my park neutral saftey switch on the transmission click, and it would do it on command. i checked th tps ohms next and it showed 162, so i put in a new one with the same readings.... hmmm

the dash lights still persist, i even removed the hot wires to the alternator, and it only made the abs and battery light go off, the rest remained.

i tried cranking the car tonight with the dsmlink connected, i checked all the values and nothing was abnormal, my coolant with 66 degrees, and that is right as it was sitting in our shop of 70 degrees. i told the fuel pump to cycle on, and it did, although the fans did not. i did capture a few of the cranks trying to start and saved them to my wifes laptop. i am unsure if they will be of any help.

i now have a fuel leak at the rail as well, verry annoying to say the least, but while logging i got the car to stutter and backfire....
Results.. this tells me something!
so i started checking the amps at the cam angle sensor to see what the voltage was, i started on the first pin as the book stated and it was getting 5 instead of 8 volts, and caused a injector to cycle on when doing so.... this is all i found as my wife showed up and braught me home.

what do you make of it?

i am thinking my cam sensor is 180 out. and something else

 

[sniver]

How about you flip it if you think that, but I do not believe it will prohibit starting, just make a crappy idle. I would be quadruple checking to ensure your cas swap is done correctly, and your coils are setup right.

Do what I asked a couple post ago, pull the cas off and with the key on, turn the cas rotor and listen for the injectors firing, nad see if the coils are firing. Ought to be if your getting signs of life.

Start pulling fuses, one at a time,start with the main sub fusibles, then work down their hierarchy. Locate what circuit the faults on at least. It would awesome if you found a small non whored out fuse. Sorry I forgot to mention htis earlier.



Just for fun; I have a 06 chevy 6500 at work that starts, and turns the radio on when you press the clutch. no keys needs. Unplugged the ignition switch, same thing. More fun waits me tomorrow. bahh.

 

[KeelesKustome]

ok cam sensor here i come., also i unplugged my ignition switch as well and the dash lights still persisted as well. still no beeper or key ring light.

 

[KeelesKustome]

here are a few photos of what i have done
the 1st is where i am adding 12 volts to the park neutral saftey switch that leads from the mfi relay. it's circled in pink, and it right beside the pnss.

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here i have the red wire that is going to the main fuse block, where it goes from red and black to the plug where it turns black with white leading to the fuel pump relay, i have them circled in pink and have a piece of yellow tape on the black wire.

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random working photos

here is my mm

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here you'll see in the passenger floor board with both fuel and mfi relays

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what i'm working with

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on the left not fmounted down you'll see the starter relay that is working when we jump the factory connection on the radiator fan for the ground.

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also question: will a 97 gst automatic wiring harness work on my car? I was told that it plugs into the fuse boxes somehow, but mine does not seem to do that , at least not under the hood.
mine is a 98 gsx

also when i tough these 2 wires highlighted in green with the mm checking the voltage it makes 1 of my injectors cycle

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[sniver]

I'm pretty sure you should have a main power from the engine harness connected to the fuse box, but again I'm not that familiar with 2gs.

Look like lots of fun.

My issue with that truck I was talking about , the push to start via clutch,was a short in the abs harness. Completely unrelated by schematics. Shows how important it is make sure you look for chafeing and corriosion.

Sent from my Droid

 

[KeelesKustome]

Interesting you would say that, because my abs keeps making clicking noises and the abs light was on. now the abs light has gone off and the clicking has subsided.
but the dash lights remain.
I read about the door sensors and how they get corrossion and bad connections and lead to dome light, door sensor light, alarm relay etc.. and how they can sometimes cause some major failure, so i plan on removing them and cleaning them to make sure the connection is more than ideal as well. I just can't seem to figure out why the interior light fuses blew in the firs place.
At this point i am just waiting on the new ecu, just for giggles to see what happens.

 

[sniver]

So whats changed?

 

[GSXTasy005]

I am having the same issue as KeelesKustome

95 Wiring harness and MFI/Fuel Pump Relay
96 GSX and ECU
1G head with CAS rewire to provide CAS/crank signal

1. I have 2 always hot (12-14V) red/black wires to the relay
2. I have 1 ignition wire (black/white) that gets 12-14V when ignition is turned on (95 harness)
3. if I apply 12V to red wire @ MFI relay with the ignition ON, my ECU will come on
4. if I provide 12V to the black/blue wire my (rewired) FP comes on.
5. There is 0 ohms resistance to the ECU on the white/red and blue/green wires from the relay
6. there are 2 wires that provide power to the MFI system (95 wiring harness) one is black/red and the other is red.

I can't remember everything I've done trying to get this thing to work... if there's something I'm missing or something else I should check, let me know.

 

[sniver]

OK lets move here from PM, so others can benefit from any discussion.

Your post sounds like opening a book the the middle and reading w/o any idea why this crazy b!tch is killing the Swedish guy. .

You say you are having the same issue, but you have one issue. Yours is simply cranking w/o starting. Now you somehow came to the conclusion of checking mpi/ecu wiring. Explain how you got here and what all you have done to this point.

I ought to do a write up on how to diagnose a starting issue, as out cars are relatively simple to work with.


Not starting?


*Does it not crank?
...1. Check battery connections & ensure proper tight fit.

....2. Check battery voltage and condition of battery on a load tester. Charge if under 12v.

....3. Check and see if there is power at the starter solenoid positive feed.
........a. Voltage the same as the battery voltage continue to step 4, less battery volatge,than clean connections and repeat.
.........b. No voltage repair open in wire.

....4. Determine if there is 12v at the solenoid trigger wire when the car is in the start position.
........a. If there is 12v at the trigger wire, and the solenoid is not activateing either the ground is poor, or the starter/solenoid is bad.
........b. If there is not 12v continue to step 5.

....5. Check for blown fues, obvious opens, chaffed wires, or any other indicators if issue. Nothing found continue.

....6. Pull the starter relay and test it to determine if its functioning properly.
........a. Starter relay test bad replace relay.
........b. Starter relay test good, contine.

....7. Determine if there is a issue with a theft system, check theft relay for proper function. If still unsure its possible to bypass this
relay effectively bypassign hte security systems. No start still, continue.

....8. Pull ignition switch connector and test it per the FSM for proper function, then probe the body side plug for proper voltages.
........a.Ignition switch tests bad, replace .
........b.voltage to the ignition plug is incorrect, repair faulty wiring.
........c.If no issue is found here, there must be an open.
..........*check continuty from the switch connector to the starter relay. no open? continue..
...........*check continuity from the relay to the trigger feed on the starter solenoid. There must be a open here , or else you missed something along the way.



*Does it crank, but not fire?

....1. Do you have spark?
........a. Yes, skip to step 2.
........b. No.
...........I. Check for 12v 1g1 voltage on the ignition switch.
..............A. Voltage 12v? skip to II.
..............B. No voltage.
................* Check fuses, fusuble links and visible wire/harness for any idicators.
................* deterimine if igniton switch is at fault.
................* follow FSM diagrams and trace power from ignito switch to where it disconitues and repair wiring.
...........II. Perform tests on the coils and transitor box.
..............A. check out ok continue to III.
..............B. Check out bad replace.
...........III. Check for open in wires, and ohms from the ecu to the transistor.
..............A. No wiring issue found, suspect the ecu or transistors.


....2. Do you have Injector pulse?
........a.Yes, skip to step 3.
........b. No.
..........I. Check for voltage on pin 1 of about 1.5-2.5 volts.
..............A. Proper voltage skip to next step.
..............B. No voltage.
................* check for igniton voltage at ecu.
................* check proper operatinon of the mpi relay.If ecu goes, if won't activate this relay occasionally.
................* check reistor box resistance.
................* check continuity of wires and check for opens between mpi relay and injector clip pin 1.
..........II. Check resistance between injector clip pin 2 and the respective ecu plug locations. (less than 1 ohm)
..............A. No issue, skip to III.
..............B. open short, or out of spec. repait accordingly.
..........III. Check resistance of injectors, varies from turbo to non turbo,consult FSM.
..............A. Out of spec, replace. open, replace.
..............B. no issue found, suspect ecu of malfunction.

.....3. Do you have fuel pressure?
........a. Yes, skip to step 4.
........b. No.
...........I. Is the pump kicking on?
..............A. no, skip to step II.
..............B. yes, look for a clogged fuel filter, out of gas, broken fuel like, or faulty FPR.
...........II. voltage to the pump.
..............A. 12v to pump? replace pump.
..............B. no volatage?
................*Check fuel pump relay for proper function.
................*check voltage to relay, no volatge check fuses and wiring.
................*ensure ecu receives ingnition power.
.................*suspect ecu if no other issue can be found.

....4. Is the motor in time? Self explanatory.

....5. Is the compression acceptible? Self explanatory.

My head hurt, if Anybody sees something that should be fixed point it out please!

 

[KeelesKustome]

I got a new ecu and complete wiring harness, I just have to find time to put it in and check it., I had to take a break, as it was stressing me out beyond beliefe, and I had too many other projects for other customers and my wifes kitchen to complete, before even thinking about working on this, I think i will try the new ecu tomorrow night before i start pulling wires, if it doesn't work, I'm gona put the new harness in. so thats where i am at.

ohh and i got 2 stock fans to see if that fixes my cranking problem without jumping the wires like i am now.

edit: I hate to say it but i am glad to see someone else with the same issue.

 

[GSXTasy005]

My issue started when I set my harness on fire.... gas fumes + open spark near the firewall = bad time.

(Side note: I also ruined my throttle cable, AEM AFPR, brake fluid reservoir, Fuel return line, Injector resistor pack, a few vacuum hoses and what was left of my coil pack)

so I ripped out my 96 harness and bought a '95 harness from Evil94Evo. I realized that I'd forgotten a couple other things too. So, I took another trip up to Vancouver and bought a coil pack, throttle cable(s), fuel return line and injector resistor pack from Evil94Evo, as well. When I got the harness into my car, I noticed that the '95 harness had a different MFI/FP relay setup than the '96 harness. (one unit in the '95 harness, instead of 2 separate relays in '96 harness).

In my glorious ignorance, I attempted to rewire the 95 harness to accept the 2 '96 relays. After countless hours of frustration, I finally broke down and bought the '95 relay off of Evil94Evo as well. I re-assembled the relay plug and installed the relay. When i turned the key, the relay did NOTHING. no click, no voltage, no nothing. It was when I didn't hear the "click" of the relay that I decided to diagnose from there. I pulled the plug off the relay and began testing wires. All of the wires seemed to be doing what they were supposed to.

I grabbed my 95 ECU with a botched socket, plugged it in (keep in mind that this ECU doesn't even have an EPROM chip in it), when I turned the key... the relay clicked on and off rapidly. I put in a service request to ECMTuning, they will have a look at my EPROM and see if they can fix my botched socket.

Perhaps this finally gave me the push I needed to get that thing fixed and start tuning my car.

 

[KeelesKustome]

my new ecu did not fix my problem.......... i really don't want too, but i'm gona have to swap out the wiring harness.

 

[sniver]

my new ecu did not fix my problem.......... i really don't want too, but i'm gona have to swap out the wiring harness.

That sucks, but why give up now. The harness isn't that bad. Ok, so it sucks...but there are worse thing in life.

When you go to pull the harness out you may be able to see a chaffed spot causing you issues. There has to, absolutely has to be something visible. You have a bite out of a harness somewhere for all of those issues.



I helped a guy here last week and the issue of crank and no start and we ended up finding a broken wire AND the 1g cas was bad.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/389018-possible-motor-sensor-trouble.html

 

[KeelesKustome]

I have my new harness re-installed.
I opened the drivers door and I noticed all my dash lights were fixed, and when i open the door the little light around the key ring even worked.

although now, i put both factory fans back on so they could complete their circuit.

I go to crank the car, and nothing happens. Not to give up i was curious, so i checked voltage at the turbo timer. before the wire swap it had 12v, now it has nothing at all.

Soooooo.... in my mind, i am thinking and so is my mechanic friend, that it's just by chance that my ignition switch went out for good.. This really seems to be the only plausible action at this point.

I still have the new switch, so I'll be putting it in and seeing if thats why my car isn't getting any of the transferred power.
If you have some other ideas i am open for suggestions.

I also have the plug and play 1g-2g cas harness now.

 

[sniver]

Remove the turbo timer until this is all sorted out, as it's possible the timer itself could be the culprit.

Check to see if you have power at the mpi relay
check for power at the ecu
check for ignition voltage at the ecu
make sure all your grounds are good.

I've already posted half the fsm up here, go back and redo every test as were strting over, since you have a new harness.

At least you see at improvement, thats a start.

 

[rush2252]

First off Id like to say.. Sniver has more patience than a monk! And secondly Id like to say, I feel for the OP. I once had an entire harness on a 00 kia sephia get trashed by a botched aftermarket cd player install. I removed the entire harness and attempted to repair the tiny ass wiring in it. Nearly a month later the car ran, but not everything worked!

I read the entire article and it appears you have almost narrowed the problem down. I noticed sniver said he was not familiar with the 1g CAS swap. Just to clarify if you have the CAS 180* out the car will not run.

I had a really good article on this topic bookmarked and it has photos as well,but I couldnt find it so I found this instead.. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...nstall-questions-need-help.html#post152352879

I believe this might be a quick solution to your problem now that it appears you have the wiring situation fixed!