2g motor better than 1g motor?

[5150]

Ok I have a 95 GST, I blew it up and am now going to replace the engine. Now i was just going to replace it with a stock 95 GST engine. But then i thought to my self well maybe i should get a 1g enging with a 6 bolt crank. But while thinking of this i remembered that the 1g motor only came with:
190 HP @ 6000rpm and 203 ft.lbs. @ 3000rpm
and the 2g motor came with:
210 HP @ 6000rpm and 214 ft.lbs. @3000rpm

Now to me this is a big difference, i dont want to replace my 2g engine for one with less power. The 2gs compression ratio is even beter, so in my eyes the 2g engine is an overall better engine besides the whole crank walk.

I dont know maybe im wrong but it sure seems that way to me. Now im not saying that it is in fact a better engine and if some can prove me wrong then please do so. I would really like to know what i should do as far as engines go. And if you do have some feed back i would also like to know if the 1g turns out to be better, than what year should i get or does it matter? And will the 1g motor bolt up with my 2g Transmission? And any other bits of usefull information. Basicly i wont to know if everything will infact bolt up and hook up right with the 2g componets.

Thanks,

 

[eclipsegsxccca]

In my opinion, if you are planing to build the motor, why not get a more reliable block,(6 bolt).if you will leave it basiclly stock, stay with the 7 bolt 2g motor. I'ts easier to replace. the 1g 6 bolt will bolt up just fine. If you plan on using the 1g block and head plan on doing some minor mods. Relocate the coil, transistor pack and map sensor, splice the crank and cam sensors to the 1g CAS and the motor mount has to be trimmed to fit the block. You have to get a 1g water pipe and lower radiator hose for the thermostat housing and you also have to do some minor plumbing for tb,heater core and turbo coolant lines.

 

[HighPsi92GST]

how about a 6 bolt block with 1g rods and 2g pistons. Then you have the compression ratio back that you want and stronger rods

 

[5150]

I would love to swap parts between the engines but i can't. You see im buying a new engine and the only way i can afford this is by parting out my old one. And the place im buying it from doesn't let you do that.

Now all of this is irelevant if i get the motor that he said he had "Evo 3". But im not putting my hopes on this, thats why i wont to know which engine is better choice 1g or 2g?

 

[HighPsi92GST]

then like eclipsegsx said, if you plan to just drive the car stock or just a few basic mods, go with the 2g 7bolt engine. If you plan on big mods like huge turbo, go with a 1g 6 bolt engine.

 

[5150]

Well my goal was about 350 hp. Its not nothing crazy but its deffinetly not stock.

 

[Amar1995]

I am one of the few people on here that thinks crankwalk is highly overrated. Stick with the seven bolt, I did and it has been fine.
Any motor can crankwalk, you figure out of the thousands of 2G 4g63's Mitsubishi made I have actually heard of maybe 20 cases. The problem is how misinformation spreads around on the internet like wildfire. Case in point everyone always said use the 1G cylinderhead for its larger ports, everybody said "ditch the 2G head, get the 1G". Now since the evo 8 has come out and the head is almost the same as a 2G everyone is going back and saying that the 2G head is better......Go figure. In the end do what works best for you and your budget. A seven bolt will handle 350hp with ease.

 

[HighPsi92GST]

where did you see that the 2g head is better?

 

[never2muchBoost]

2g head is much better ported since it has thicker walls, 1g is better stock. both are very comparable tho, if u blew the bottom end of your 7 bolt just get a 6 bolt block with 2 pistons, 4 layer head gasket and all arp hardware. 1g head has a little bit bigger intake runners for better top end but unless yr pushing out mad hp no one will notice it

 

[HighPsi92GST]

2g head is much better ported since it has thicker walls, 1g is better stock.

ahh gotcha. I was thinking only stock, so without porting its not better.

 

[My96AWD]

2g head is much better ported since it has thicker walls, 1g is better stock. both are very comparable tho, if u blew the bottom end of your 7 bolt just get a 6 bolt block with 2 pistons, 4 layer head gasket and all arp hardware. 1g head has a little bit bigger intake runners for better top end but unless yr pushing out mad hp no one will notice it

its not that it has thicker walls, its because it has a better shape in the ports which allows someone that knows how to port get a better angle at the back of the valves. stock for stock 1g is better. ported by someone that actually knows what they are doing 2 g is better.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Here' s a nice comparison chart for ya.

http://dsm.misterdeedub.com/1gvs2g.html

1g throttle body owns 2g
1g head owns 2g

etc etc etc

 

[Attack Eagle]

5150


get a 98-99 block...

then you dont have to buy all new front case and components...
just change thw water pumps and all the timing sundries while it is there...


there is no difference in power that a 1-2 psi boost diference would not explain.


I have a 6 bolt with ross 8.5:1 pisotns and other than a bit of noise I really cant tell the difference between the 7 bolt and the 6 bolt... except in the wallet

 

[Big Woo]

At the end of the day I prefer the 6-bolt.

But here is a slightly different view, this is something I have done several times in the past. For people looking for mild to moderate power gains, and not wanting to go to a 6-bolt in a 2g, usually because of wiring issues, random misfire, etc. You can use a 1G 7-bolt block, with the 2G pistons, and head, and your original sensors will work. This allows you to have the 1G type oiling system, and oil squirter's, while allowing use of the 2G electronics. This can be important if you subscribe to the Magnus theory of crankwalk. Additionally you can use the 1G head and add the 95/96 style CAS to the front of the intake cam, if you can fabricate, and weld aluminum. Of course all this assumes that you know what you are doing, and mix and match the correct 1G and 2G components.

There is always more than one way around a problem.

 

[Attack Eagle]

Big Woo:

What front Cover are you using to get a crank angle sensor on there?


On the mitsu 7 bolt the front cover doesn't have provisions for the crank angle sensor.
You still have to aquire all the 1g timing parts, pan etc etc which are NOT 2g 7bolt crank angle sensor compatible.

in other words all the parts required for that swap are the same as the 1g 6 bolt and you still have to use a 1g CAS to get a crank sensor signal... Might as well go 6 bolt instead of 7 bolt 1g... it's the same slice of pie as far as cost and needed modifications go.


Also what would be the point of running a 95-96 cas on a 1g head??? the 97+ bolts right on. Or you could just run the 1g cas (black top) and simply not connect the double speed/crank emulator wire if you have figured out a way to get a crank sensor on there.

Or stick with the 2g head and keep everything stock looking.

I'm sorry but that just doesn't make any sense at all... please explain before someone calls MISINFO! on a wiseman.

 

[Ludachris]

I'm sorry but that just doesn't make any sense at all... please explain before someone calls MISINFO! on a wiseman.

Challenging a Wisemans' logic is fine, but the new Misinformation link isn't to be used as a tool to start pissing matches. We don't want people telling the world they're going to click the link. If you're going to click it, do it quietly please. The Wiseman you're reporting receives a copy of your alert, so keep that in mind.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

That link url made me laugh. "Report-bs"

 

[TargeT]

keep in mind the 2g's have a better shaped comubustion chamber also.

so not only do you get higher velocity porting & a better cumbustion chamber, if you chose to port the head out later you have a better platform to start with..

in my 6bolt swap the 2g head stays.

 

[Attack Eagle]

Challenging a Wisemans' logic is fine, but the new Misinformation link isn't to be used as a tool to start pissing matches. We don't want people telling the world they're going to click the link. If you're going to click it, do it quietly please. The Wiseman you're reporting receives a copy of your alert, so keep that in mind.

no problem. and i'm not here to start a pissing match... but that is so bloody wrong that you have to question the validity ofthe persons post.


I know he gets a copy... but i can't let 5 10 or 20 people read that and think they can do it before he corrects himself.

 

[Big Woo]

I think you may have misread something, or did not comprehend what you did read.

I was specifically talking about the first generation 7- bolt block, you know the often forgotten about one that came in the late 1992 through 1994 DSM’s. If you were to compare the (well lets say) three DSM blocks
1: 6-bolt 1990 – early 1992 (12mm head bolts, three separate and unique main bearing caps, etc)
2: 7-bolt late 1992 – 1994 (11mm head bolts, one main cap cradle)
3: 2G 7-bolt 1995 on (11mm head bolts, one main cap cradle)
There are some other differences, but lets keep it simple here.

You can attach the 2 G front cover/oil pump to the 1G 7-bolt block (there is no drilling or tapping here)
, Or add provisions to the stock 1G 7-bolt cover for the 2G crank sensor. If using the 2G-oil pump there is no provision for the one 10mm threaded hole in the 1G 7-bolt blocks. However it is less than 2cm (center to center) from a 8mm bolt that is provided on the 7-bolt motors, but not the 6-bolt ones. So there is no sealing or integrity issue in not using it. There is also some minor gasket trimming.

Oil pans the 6-bolt pan is flat along the pan rail, and the seven bolts 1G & 2G have a curved section where is seals against the front cover/oli pump.

There is nothing to prevent me fit wise from using the 7-bolt crank snout components on a 1G or 2G motor. They may cause problems setting all of the timing belt marks up, but you don’t absolutely need them, as there are other ways to ensure their position. They are dam convenient for quickly aligning the cam-timing semi accurately, but they are not absolutely necessary, how do you think the factory figured out where to put the makes in the first place?

There are people/customers who do not want the added expense, or trouble associated with the 6-bolt 2G conversion. Some just want to use the stock ECU, without adding the potentiometer, DSM link, or other items, as a way to skirt the inverted CAS signal.

As I said at the top of my last post, “I prefer the 6-bolt” as I think that the conversion is relatively simple, and in the grand scheme there is not much in the way of additional costs.

Don't take my work for it, go out and bolt a 2G oil pump to a 1G 7-bolt block, or better yet start your own thread, and prehaps someone will take some picturs for you and post them.

 

[Big Woo]

And no all of the 1G 6-bolt and 7-bolt timing components are not the same.

 

[Bastard1g]

no problem. and i'm not here to start a pissing match... but that is so bloody wrong that you have to question the validity ofthe persons post.


I know he gets a copy... but i can't let 5 10 or 20 people read that and think they can do it before he corrects himself.

What he says makes sense to me. Also I would be quite upset if you tried to report a good wiseman. I have allready done my own 6 bolt swap in my 98 gst and I ran into a few problems and he helped me along the way with a few other wisemen, so I dont doubt his knowledge or his advise.

 

[Attack Eagle]

so what you are saying its you are using a 1g 7bolt block and oil pan and all 2g 7 bolt front case parts... you are using a 2g oil pump?

Interesting take... You'd save on the front case and cas, but otherwise everything would wind up the same expense wise if you replaced everything as you should.


Interesting...

now we have some details

please do a complete write up on it for the tech articles section...
at the very least you can properly document it, unlike all the 6 bolt swaps pages out on the net that either leave out parts, or have too many parts listed...