2G MAS vs Speed Density

[ESiJohn-95]

Hello all. Let me start by saying that I have searched for an answer to my question but haven't found one to validate a decision.
I will soon be stepping up to ECM Link and am stuck on the question of speed density. I have limited tuning experience and can't decide if I should stick with the 2G MAS or if I should go with speed density. My ultimate goal will be to have a low 11 second daily driver. I know that it will take time to reach this goal but I think that ECM Link will make my transition smoother and help me with my tuning capabilities.
I am looking for personal experience suggestions as well as personal preferences. If possible, I would like some pro's and con's of each route. Some explanation of speed density would be a bonus.
All mods are in my profile with the exception of an Aeromotive AFPR, an AEM UEGO, 1150 injectors, and an Evo III 16g to replace the 19c. All of these are sitting in the garage waiting to be installed. There is also an additional motor for my future goals build up.
Thanks in advance for all responses as they are much appreciated.

John

 

[Gamble97]

You need to buy an air intake sensor $40 and a 3bar or 3.3bar etc for speed density. Another $40-$80
Speed density will react slower than a maf, but it's still good.

Can't go wrong w/ a properly working 2g maf.

I have yet to make the switch.

 

[DSM nOOb]

The big difference between the two is that a MAF system reads the actual airflow the motor is takin in. This is a good thing. With speed density, your map sensor is calculating the airflow that the motor is taking in but only as an estimated value. Don't get me wrong the speed density system is great, but it does not calculate for things like altitude. Either system will work just fine and both have teir pro's and con's. It really just comes down to what you are more comfortable with.

You will be able to attain your goal with either one of these systems.

 

[Dallas J]

Altitude doesnt have an effect on speed density. If the air is "thinner" then the MAP sensor will read less pressure. When it comes down to it, air volume is a calculation based off the ideal gas law (PV = nRT) where n and R are held constant. Then the VE table is used to tune for engine efficiency at given RPMs and the fact a true ideal gas doesnt exist, only that at certain temps and pressure ranges gasses are close to being ideal.

If you think about OEM applications, that would be like saying you have to get a speed density car re-tuned for high altitude which of course you dont.

 

[ESiJohn-95]

Thanks for the replies, guys, they help with my understanding of the system. I guess, though, that a more direct question is in order: Why would I choose to go with a speed density setup?

Thanks again,
John

 

[Sam@RRE]

Thanks for the replies, guys, they help with my understanding of the system. I guess, though, that a more direct question is in order: Why would I choose to go with a speed density setup?

Thanks again,
John

If you outflow your 2G maf. The stock MAF is really accurate and consistant once you calibrate it. Easier and simpler to get them dialed in. SD is an air metering system based off of airflow calculation from pressure input. In the end, you get the same product one reads airflow and guesses boost. Other reads boost and guesses airflow. Stick to the 2G maf and learn to tune that first, and well. If you jump strait into SD, you will hate yourself. But in the end, your car will still make the same power whether you do MAF or SD. Only difference you can be frusturated and pissed off tuning SD ( built the VE from scratch ) If you feel like it, you can get your car dialed on MAF, and then use the maf to build the VE table, a feature offered in ECMlink.

 

[ESiJohn-95]

Thanks Sam. That information is very helpful. Thanks everyone else for your replies as well. I believe I will stick with the 2G MAF and sharpen my abilities with that.
At what point though, does one usually outflow the 2G MAF?

 

[Boosted gsx]

Abel racing says about 500hp

 

[toofast82]

Both have their pros and cons
I have not even thought about putting a maf sensor back on since switching to speed density well over a year ago. I've driven in temps from 10-100*f with no issues. The VE tables are actually very easy to tune once you get a good base map. If you blow an intercooler pipe off from time to time it will be unaffected as well.
But a 2g maf is usually good to around 50lb/min and then you could go the Evo8 maf for a little more capability without restriction if you want to keep maf

 

[ESiJohn-95]

I hear great things about Abel Racing, but have yet to use them for anything other than picking up a few parts. They're the real deal, huh? Being that you are from Tulsa, boosted; what happened to AP Racing? Any insight?
Thanks toofast. The main reason for my considering speed density is for future upgrade paths, and the dismissal of a little clutter from the engine bay.

 

[2gGSX]

I personally pushed my 2g MAF to ~3000 hz or just around 50 lbs/min with only minor signs of overrun. Not the greatest setup, but it worked.

Currently running on SD though.

 

[Boosted gsx]

I've never heard of ap Racing. There is humble performance but they mainly do hondas. I'll be up at Abel today workin on my car if your bored. They are a bit slow but it's ###### from being swamped

 

[ESiJohn-95]

From a few years ago, run by Aniel Pagan, who I believe is the brother of the guy who runs Humble Perfomance.
I will definitely be using Abel Racing for some things in the future. Might in fact use them to get a baseline tune before installing the ECM Link, if I don't have them do the install. I wish they had an all wheel dyno though. Oh well.
I'm fairly new to OK even though I lived here a few years ago for a while. I think Abel Racing was just really getting started then though.
Thanks, boosted, for the invite, I won't be able to make it, but maybe some time in the future.
2G: How long have you been using SD, and do you find it more beneficial than the MAF?

 

[2gGSX]

It's nice in that I don't have to worry about MAF overrun, and not nice in the sense that it's still an estimate based on the VE table I made. Setting it up is a lot of work, especially if you build the map from scratch.

If you have a GM MAF setup in your car, then you can actually hook up an IAT and use the SDRatio adjustment wizard to hel.

 

[ESiJohn-95]

Thanks, guys, for all your help. I believe I'll be sticking with the 2G MAS for a while.

 

[pboglio]

Have a MAP sensor fail on you during a WOT pull and see how much fun speed density is.
My car survived thanks to a tank full of high octane fuel that simply would not knock.
I prefer the MAF sensor and for anything under 450 h.p. or so, you really don't see a measurable difference in power output swapping between the two. I haven't tried ECMLink's speed density so there in fact may actually be some driveability improvements thanks to the superior mapping. But typically the turbo will respond a bit quicker and spool will improve 100-200 rpms.

 

[Kito]

I recently switched to sd and i highly recommend it.Ecmlink makes it easy...sd is sexytime!!!

 

[wcassar]

Hi guys I am going to introduce the speed density in my mitsubishi lancer.
Some wiring diagram please of how to connect what?
I purchased an omni power 4 bar map sensor and an air temperature sensor too.

 

[boost97gst]

ECMTuning, Inc.

Your mods list is non existent so im guessing you have or will have link. You can find info for SD in the above link i posted.