2G DSM FMIC Intercooler kit by JR

[doug]

Yeah, I asked him about that too-- this is another reason I was thinking of the ADFX setup even though it's more $$$.

 

[Endz0r]

JR is pimp. i sent him money for the intercooler on sunday night, monday morning, and he had it sent out on monday. what a pimp!! it'll be here friday.

 

[NewB2dsm]

Not to down this guys product but there are better setups out there for the price.

My kit is 750 for a 24x10x3 bar and plate core with 2.5" piping from the turbo to the upper pipe location then the upper pipe is expensive but no bends in it. No nasty bend like it shows for that upper pipe, or at least what looks like a pretty good bend to me.

Speed-design makes the kit i have here are some pictures also that Jpipe can be made better. The one for the speed-design kit flares on its way down and does not have that wierd all of a sudden bigger section like there. Here are pictures.

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Jpipe before powercoat

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Upper pipe not included in the kit...

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Whats in the kit for 750

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Installed competly

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Website
http://www.gatewaydsm.org/SpeedDesign/html/products.html


Like i said i was just giving an extra option for someone looking to spend a tad more and to me get a slightly better product that what is shown there, just by the pictures. So its another idea.

 

[DSMunknown]

the IC looks pretty good. i noticed that both of the j tubes don't interfere with the air flow of the IC. however, i noticed with, i believe it was Greddy's IC, that the tube carrying the air from the intercooler connects at the top of the core of the IC. here is the site to see that on Slowboy:

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=143&

does this mean that the tubing on the Greddy IC is more sufficient (gets the cooled air to the turbo quicker) than others such as jr's IC? or is it a minimal difference? or is there no difference? i have been wondering about this for a while. i HATE ICs that you are able to see the IC tube that comes rom the intake mani but don't show the second tube that carries the cooled air. i just seems like the IC is hanging on with one tube to the car.

all im saying is that i would like an intercooler that shows both tubes. but if it really hinders the performance of the IC, then i guess it wouldn't be worth it.

 

[CanadianTSi]

NewB2DSM, the kit you posted looks almost Indenticle to JR's, except it's not short routed and it doesn't come with all the piping. So why would you say it's a better option?

 

[NewB2dsm]

NewB2DSM, the kit you posted looks almost Indenticle to JR's, except it's not short routed and it doesn't come with all the piping. So why would you say it's a better option?

Well first has anyone had any documentation that proves short route is better? I have not heard anyone come forth is facts saying it is. Sure spool up time will be a tad different but we are talking about charging a foot more of piping, its not as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Also a 90 degree bend i belive is equal to 1psi of pressure drop. But enough about the short route piping.

First off, the Jpipe on the kit i mentioned looks a whole hell of a lot nicer, and probably proforms better as well, but that is just about the same as the short route debate.

I never said it would be better just in my eyes 700 vs 750. One is on ebay and no real dsm shop behind it the other is 750 and is backed by a well known shop, that is if you know what is inside tre trannies. Id rather give my money to a shop that deals just with dsms and that has a name over the dsm comunity.

Like i said before im not downing that kit there, it looks nice and probably does very well. I just posted another option someone may choose to do that is similar in price if you dont get the upper IC pipe. And the other thing is, most people already have a UICP before they do a fmic so its not too big of a deal.

 

[DSMunknown]

here, i found a pic of what im talking about. sorry illusioneclipse, this isn't a knock on your car. im just trying to make my case.


http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/data/502/22666DSCN1190_664117812_27275.jpg


doesn't that look really awkward ? just my opinion, i guess.

 

[nazthug]

Well first has anyone had any documentation that proves short route is better? I have not heard anyone come forth is facts saying it is. Sure spool up time will be a tad different but we are talking about charging a foot more of piping, its not as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Also a 90 degree bend i belive is equal to 1psi of pressure drop. But enough about the short route piping.

First off, the Jpipe on the kit i mentioned looks a whole hell of a lot nicer, and probably proforms better as well, but that is just about the same as the short route debate.

I never said it would be better just in my eyes 700 vs 750. One is on ebay and no real dsm shop behind it the other is 750 and is backed by a well known shop, that is if you know what is inside tre trannies. Id rather give my money to a shop that deals just with dsms and that has a name over the dsm comunity.

Like i said before im not downing that kit there, it looks nice and probably does very well. I just posted another option someone may choose to do that is similar in price if you dont get the upper IC pipe. And the other thing is, most people already have a UICP before they do a fmic so its not too big of a deal.

for someone that doesnt believe in short routes, you sure have one hell of a big IC

, if anything, a 10" tall IC is OVERKILL< at least more then short piping is

Also, YES, short pipes help, helps response, spool and also helps fight weird things, , becuase with a bov, and my long ass piping, i just had weird drivability, the bov wouludnt react fast enough, the car stumbled sometimes

Short route, it responds faster, spools faster and doesnt do weird shit with hte bov

I think the IC jr has is perfect size, 25x7x3 core, its just big enough but still allows flow over the top for the radiator

Anything 10" plus will block all flow to the radiator, which is why everyone has cooling problems

Im happy with my 7"

Plus, his kit is under $700

 

[NewB2dsm]

for someone that doesnt believe in short routes, you sure have one hell of a big IC

, if anything, a 10" tall IC is OVERKILL< at least more then short piping is

Also, YES, short pipes help, helps response, spool and also helps fight weird things, , becuase with a bov, and my long ass piping, i just had weird drivability, the bov wouludnt react fast enough, the car stumbled sometimes

Short route, it responds faster, spools faster and doesnt do weird shit with hte bov

I think the IC jr has is perfect size, 25x7x3 core, its just big enough but still allows flow over the top for the radiator

Anything 10" plus will block all flow to the radiator, which is why everyone has cooling problems

Im happy with my 7"

Plus, his kit is under $700

I never said it was not a good kit, just i gave another option and the little things i didnt like about that kit. And yes my intercooler is big and guess what, with my huge IC, cams, and long route piping full boost still comes on at around !3400 thats 26psi on race gas at ~3400 so it respones just fine to me.

As for a 10" core not helping with cooling, i have no problems with it at all. I even took it to denver around a road course. There it did get hot after about 3 laps of flat out driving but everyones car pretty much did. For somthing like that a nice radiator is key. But driving around, going down the track its fine.

And my only question is, how can somthing that fills the hole openeing let air go above it? there is a bumper suport there and a bumper cover, air cant go though plastic. Either way it looks like both kits are good, maybe some has plus's over the other. I just like the quaility of mine, not to say yours or this kit isnt good qaulity but that J-pipe is somthing else, and that is my biggest complaint.

 

[Stapl3]

Not to down this guys product but there are better setups out there for the price.

Someone finally said it.

 

[Turbo442]

I have a FMIC from JR plumbed into my 20G. I was looking for some mandrel bend tubing and found him on E-bay one day. His shop wound up being about an hour from my house so instead of talking on the phone I drove up to see his place in person. Honestly I was surprised how much business some one can do selling FMIC kits! He has some serious inventory. He took the time to show me around and look at various projects he had going on. Wound up selling me a customer returned scratched FMIC dirt cheap and all of the IC piping as well. JR showed me his black 91 300Z with a turboed chevy V8 in it that dynoed over 1000hp. I wouldnt be too concerned with the flow of either IC core, he was using the same 10" core on this 1000hp monstor. The turbo on that Z made my 20g look smaller than a little T25. At any rate, I was extremely impressed with this guys technical background. He had a great attitude and answered any technical question I had in a very calm, professional manor. A refreshing break from walking into a typical rice shop full of electronic boost controllers and carbon shift knobs with idiot kids behind the counter trying to BS me to death.
Regards,
Matt
90 AWD

 

[Stapl3]

I wouldnt be too concerned with the flow of either IC core, he was using the same 10" core on this 1000hp monstor.

Everyone says that time and time again, and it really means nothing.

 

[MitsuBoost]

Someone finally said it.

Name one

 

[CanadianTSi]

Everyone says that time and time again, and it really means nothing.

It means nothing?? people always ask for proof of how well an IC works, if 1000hp isn't enough proof for you then what is?

 

[pboglio]

Dyno testing is extremely valid, guy actually tested his I.C.'s, I respect that. However, a big turbo setup can afford to have more than 2 psi pressure drop in the I.C. Thats because the bigger turbo still has plenty of compressor flow to make up for it. Instead of 30 psi it craps out at 28 psi or so. A little 16g can't afford to have much pressure drop in the I.C. core, 1 psi more pressure drop is about 10 h.p. lost if your at the compressor limit. I'd want that 10 h.p. back if it were me. I hope nobody questions the I.C. efficiency since its a pretty big unit with high density internal fins, I believe the efficiency. Its the pressure drop rating I'd like proof on, doesn't jive with Spearco cores. With a tight internal fin design, how do they overcome the pressure drop on a 25" long core with such a small charge cross sectional area? Spearco uses a wide internal fin spacing and plain fins on long cores, completely OPPOSITE of what this guy states. Its just that Spearco and a few of the Garrett cores have efficiency & pressure drop charts (Road Race Engineering) that give people a little more reassurance. Anybody have one of these uninstalled, could you take a close up inside the I.C., maybe an inside head on shot? Just throwing a different view point in here for discussion.

 

[nazthug]

I have a FMIC from JR plumbed into my 20G. I was looking for some mandrel bend tubing and found him on E-bay one day. His shop wound up being about an hour from my house so instead of talking on the phone I drove up to see his place in person. Honestly I was surprised how much business some one can do selling FMIC kits! He has some serious inventory. He took the time to show me around and look at various projects he had going on. Wound up selling me a customer returned scratched FMIC dirt cheap and all of the IC piping as well. JR showed me his black 91 300Z with a turboed chevy V8 in it that dynoed over 1000hp. I wouldnt be too concerned with the flow of either IC core, he was using the same 10" core on this 1000hp monstor. The turbo on that Z made my 20g look smaller than a little T25. At any rate, I was extremely impressed with this guys technical background. He had a great attitude and answered any technical question I had in a very calm, professional manor. A refreshing break from walking into a typical rice shop full of electronic boost controllers and carbon shift knobs with idiot kids behind the counter trying to BS me to death.
Regards,
Matt
90 AWD

i agree, when i spoke to him, he was a cool guy and he knew his shit

The inside of the IC that i got from him, the hybrid that he calls it, DOES indeed have VERY closely spaced fins, BUT they are .004 thick, they are thiner then hell, so there is still plenty of airflow to go through, PLUS because there are so many of these tiny fins, they cool the air down better


i have seen IC with insides that are pretty much empty, sure, it may flow all the air through it, but what good is that if it doesnt cool it

When i get back home i might upgrade to a bigger core from him, he has a 25x8x3 i think that will be perfect for me

I dont noticed any noticable pressure drops, maybe 1psi no more

 

[Turbo442]

Here is a photo of JR's 10" core mounted in my 1G.

http://w1.rob.com/pix/FMIC/IMG_2491
http://w1.rob.com/pix/FMIC/IMG_2978
http://w1.rob.com/pix/FMIC/IMG_2977

Some notes about the install:
I hogged the crap out of my front bumper (use cutting torches)
The install on the 1G lets the IC get up out of harms way. (curbs and such)
The IC piping is 2.5"
On the 1G the IC routing with the 20G is shoter than stock SMIC and 14b!
I beleive the throttle body flange was water jetted to minimize warping.
I did most of the IC welding since JR does not provide a 20G IC setup (at the time anyway). He did provide me with all of the tubing, couplers, clamps and a pre-made upper IC pipe from the throttle body to the bov with flange all pre-welded. Welds were first rate.
I powdercoated everything myself semigloss black for the factory look. JR usually sells his stuff powdercoated.

 

[coltboostin]

Tube and Fin will always play second fiddle to bar and plate. I would also like to see it be a bit thicker.

 

[NewB2dsm]

http://w1.rob.com/pix/FMIC/IMG_2978

wow, a perfect 90 degree. Your air is just slamming right into a wall, then going though the IC. I do not like that one bit. Im sure it still works but .... yea

 

[Black95TSIawd]

http://www.agpturbo.com/customer/product.php?productid=27&cat=47&page=1

so you're saying agp's kit is bad too cuz of the way the outlet is?

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=159&

or the sbr kit?

http://linux.forcedperformance.net/...oduct_Code=FPFMIC1G1&Category_Code=DSM-Intake

or forced performance?

 

[coltboostin]

http://w1.rob.com/pix/FMIC/IMG_2978

wow, a perfect 90 degree. Your air is just slamming right into a wall, then going though the IC. I do not like that one bit. Im sure it still works but .... yea

Dont forget Buschur's kit, and PressureTreatedTechnologies kit. Matter of fact, that style endtank intercooler was originally on the RWD tube car when it went 8's, and one of those is still hanging off of Shep's car. Do me a favor and call Dave and Shep to tell him they are morons for running those style end tanks on their 8 second cars.

 

[doug]

Just because it works doesn't mean it's the best design.

 

[coltboostin]

for someone that doesnt believe in short routes, you sure have one hell of a big IC

, if anything, a 10" tall IC is OVERKILL< at least more then short piping is

Also, YES, short pipes help, helps response, spool and also helps fight weird things, , becuase with a bov, and my long ass piping, i just had weird drivability, the bov wouludnt react fast enough, the car stumbled sometimes

Short route, it responds faster, spools faster and doesnt do weird shit with hte bov

I think the IC jr has is perfect size, 25x7x3 core, its just big enough but still allows flow over the top for the radiator

Anything 10" plus will block all flow to the radiator, which is why everyone has cooling problems

Im happy with my 7"

Plus, his kit is under $700

And I will GARUNTEE you dont run anything better than low 12's on a good day. You are a moron for saying 10inch tall intercooler is overkill, it is nesesarry when you are makeing any real power. Call EVERY good DSM shop in this damn country and ask them what intercooler you sould go with for 450whp and above. I dare you.

 

[coltboostin]

Just because it works doesn't mean it's the best design.

And you dont think 2 of the Biggest DSM names in the country would use it on their personal drag cars if it was not the best?

 

[NewB2dsm]

http://www.agpturbo.com/customer/product.php?productid=27&cat=47&page=1

so you're saying agp's kit is bad too cuz of the way the outlet is?

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=159&

or the sbr kit?

http://linux.forcedperformance.net/...oduct_Code=FPFMIC1G1&Category_Code=DSM-Intake

or forced performance?

The first kit there is fine, has a Bend going into the side of the IC. The second i cant tell but seems like they are trying to get it to flow better and the FP one i do not like. Im not saying its bad what what would common sence tells you flows better? A or B?

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That is how i think of it.