20g's, 18g's and 16g's....Questions...

[wrx2dsm]

I have been reading every post I can find. I have posted about 50 trims and EVO 16g's. I still have no idea what turbo I want or need, its about as clear as mud. The sleeper 16g seems to be a viable option as well, almost the power of 20g with an internal gate. Everyone that has a 20g loves them. It seems that 50 trims cant take the abuse that the Mitsu turbos can and require more supporting mods to extract full potential. I am trying to sort through all the numbers and posts. The creep issues scare me with EVO 16g's. I already have a full 3 inch exhaust. I have a 110k on my stock motor. I would like to compile as much info regarding the 16-20g's and their variants into one thread. User experiences would be greatly beneficial. It doesnt seem like the 50trim is right for me, all things considered. Budget is a concern, but I also dont want buy things twice if it can be helped. Thanks for all the help and the time.

 

[dsm-onster]

Budget is a concern, but I also dont want buy things twice if it can be helped. Thanks for all the help and the time.

I will get flamed for sure . I say 18g. it i internally gated...

Everyon says: "great they flow like an evo 16G and lag like a 20G..." But no they have 55 more cfm flow than the evo (550 cfm at 15psi) and 45 less than the 20g (650 at 15psi) and they spool faster than a 20g. they can be had affordably of you can fish around because they are unpopular. for me it was an upgrade: i started off with a SMALL 16g (tdo5h turbine housing) and i bought the 18g CHRA from FP to slide into the turbine housing... over 100cfm more potential airflow at the same boost... so needless to say... i'm cranking up the boost You'll have to get a full 18g though. and stuff to bolt it on.

 

[herostar]

you can get an internally gated 20g with a 90* elbow welded on to make installation alot easier...

 

[silversmoke4g63]

what are your hp goals and how much lag are you willing to accept. will you be using your car for fun transportation, autocrossing, drag racing, or road racing. answering these questions will help others point you in the right direction.

 

[doug]

I will get flamed for sure . I say 18g. it i internally gated...

I'm not gonna flame. In fact, I agree. I have an 18G (replaced a Big16G 'cuz I got a good deal on it) and I'm very happy with it. I like that not too many people have one. It's got practically the spool of a 16G with almost 20G flow. Mine's internally-gated too, and I've got no boost creep issues whatsoever.

 

[talontsi97]

Im in the same situation. I have a FWD so that definetely comes into play. I am also going to be running a external wastegate so that is taken care of. It also has to be a mitsu flange to fit my manifold.
I am undecided what i want. I want a quick daily driver, that will be drag raced from time to time. I am undecided if i want a evo16, 18g or 20g, I was also thinking about the to4b v trim turbo from bullseye. I dont want the quickest spool up cause of the fwd but i dont want it real laggy. Im basically in the same situation as wrx2dsm so hopefully someone will help us both out.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I went with an SBR G50 turbo. decided to move up from the e316G I had.

Why did I choose a 50 trim over 18g/20g? because the numbers are proven on BOTH [20g/50trim] and both have mitsu flanged cast turbine housings. Why did I switch to a 50 trim not a 20g? "SALE"

 

[ShapeGSX]

I will get flamed for sure . I say 18g. it i internally gated...

Everyon says: "great they flow like an evo 16G and lag like a 20G..." But no they have 55 more cfm flow than the evo (550 cfm at 15psi) and 45 less than the 20g (650 at 15psi) and they spool faster than a 20g. they can be had affordably of you can fish around because they are unpopular. for me it was an upgrade: i started off with a SMALL 16g (tdo5h turbine housing) and i bought the 18g CHRA from FP to slide into the turbine housing... over 100cfm more potential airflow at the same boost... so needless to say... i'm cranking up the boost You'll have to get a full 18g though. and stuff to bolt it on.

I've never seen a CFM rating for the Evo III 16G. And besides, I've never trusted those CFM ratings, anyway. A cubic foot of air could have 1 air molecule or millions. A mass airflow rating like one in lb/min is a much better rating.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I've never seen a CFM rating for the Evo III 16G. And besides, I've never trusted those CFM ratings, anyway. A cubic foot of air could have 1 air molecule or millions. A mass airflow rating like one in lb/min is a much better rating.

I could have sworn you the one that pulled 42 lb/min from your 16G

 

[ShapeGSX]

I could have sworn you the one that pulled 42 lb/min from your 16G

44.1lb/min, actually. That was a really cold day, though.

That isn't a CFM rating, though. I suppose I could convert it using air pressure at sea level.

 

[ShapeGSX]

That was easy. 44.1lb/min = 625CFM at sea level.

 

[white 2g awd]

just to back up the evo 16g, i've logged 40lbs/min (boost creep up to about 23-24psi i think from 20psi) but i had the boost set too high in the first place with the stock smic.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm not gonna flame. In fact, I agree. I have an 18G (replaced a Big16G 'cuz I got a good deal on it) and I'm very happy with it. I like that not too many people have one. It's got practically the spool of a 16G with almost 20G flow. Mine's internally-gated too, and I've got no boost creep issues whatsoever.

Us 18g'ers must stick together. It's sweet that we have what not many have... Internal wastegating is why i got it... I would have gone 20g, but i think internal wastegates and 20gs don't mix well. I didn't think that extra bit of flow was worth having to convert over to an external gate. So bam that's the biggest i could afford with those characteristics. Besides I'll probably have to fetch some new internals befor i max this turbo out.

 

[JiggahMan]

Us 18g'ers must stick together. It's sweet that we have what not many have... Internal wastegating is why i got it... I would have gone 20g, but i think internal wastegates and 20gs don't mix well. I didn't think that extra bit of flow was worth having to convert over to an external gate. So bam that's the biggest i could afford with those characteristics. Besides I'll probably have to fetch some new internals befor i max this turbo out.

I have a 20g internally gated with external dump... Works perfect

 

[jmakado]

Obviously YMMV as Shape has proven but the listed lb/min of some poular mitsu turbos and the To4E 50 trim are:
Small 16g 34lb/min
Big 16g 36lb/min
Evo3 16g 42lb/min (from Forced Performance info)
20g 44lb/min
To4E 50 trim 49lb/min
Like I said, people will have different results with the same turbo but this can give you a rough idea of what they flow. Now I know that the E16g is only rated 2lb/min below the 20g but many have gone much faster on 20g's. Shape may be bucking that trend at some point....

 

[scottsee]

i like mitsubishi turbos, but they are so expensive compared to other turbos that flow more air. scm series turbos are cheap, warrenty, and flow shit loads of air. you can almost get a Forced performance turbo for the price of a tdo6h 20g. To each their own.

if your going for a street turbo, around town under 699, try turbonetics, or evo16g.
if you want a 4k+ spool, play turbo check out 20g, FP, SBR.

 

[wrx2dsm]

Thanks for all the responses. This was the kinda useful information lacking when I searched the other threads. I would like to keep spool around 3500-3800 rpms max. The biggest thing that holds me back from the 50 trims is the perceived lack of durability. Mitsubushi turbos may be "expensive" but have proven to take a beating. I mean the things that my buddy put his s16g through are crazy. My T-25 would not survive at boost levels like that. Internal gate is also a requirement. I would also like to hear about some of Mitsu variants like Bastard 20g and Sleeper 16g's. I remember reading awhile back that the sleeper 16g will perform like a 20g with the footprint and installation of a 16g. There are so many options available for DSM's that it can be mind numbing. Ive ridden in alot of cars with varying power levels. Im looking for a flexible power band with a minimum of 300whp and the afore mentioned spool characteristics. Im not trying to build the fastest car just something that can holds its own. I want something that can adapt well to all kinds of situations. Its not just about straight line speed. EVO16g sound so great...but...I remeber reading the EVO16g dyno thread and plenty of people struggled to hit 300 whp. I know that people have done amazing things with EVO16g(ie ShapeGSX) but I dont consider myself one of the ones that can extract that kind of potential. I am also intrigued by the 18g option. It seems that 300whp is very attainable with the additional flow of the 18g. I have heard from a few people in anoter thread about 18g's. They seem to be like the 20g crowd, if you have it you love it. Thanks in Advance for all the info and I hope this thread can be useful for many a DSMers.

 

[99gst_racer]

There's a member on here by the name of redrkt, and he runs an 18G. He's got some very impressive track times with it too. I know he's in the 11's. His profile says 11.9 @ 115, but I think that was with his old 16g, and I think he's done better since he updated his profile. I know he's shooting for high 10's right now.

 

[doug]

Us 18g'ers must stick together. It's sweet that we have what not many have... Internal wastegating is why i got it... I would have gone 20g, but i think internal wastegates and 20gs don't mix well.

I had heard that about 20Gs as well, but JiggahMan seems to be OK with it. My 18G was actually external when I first got it, and I converted it back to internal. It was a little difficult because it has the TD06 compressor housing (looks like a 20G). My local DSM shop was able to adapt a wastegate arm onto it with no problems.

I believe that I've not yet begun to max out this turbo either. I've gotten a tad over 34 lbs/min out of it so far at 20 PSI, pretty much untuned, with at least two known boost leaks.

I didn't go larger because I have an A/T with a stock torque converter. Anything bigger and I wouldn't be able to get off the line for anything.

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

i 100% agree that a 20g turbo and an internal gate do not mix well. i have a custom 20g on my car with an internal gate, and its got terrible boost creep to 25 psi. its not really a bad problem in my case, since i run more then 25 psi on race gas, and i have an external gate on a 2g manifold sitting in the other room, just gotts get around to putting it on. but if your gonna get a turbo for your street car i do not recomend an internaly gated 20g.

 

[JiggahMan]

i 100% agree that a 20g turbo and an internal gate do not mix well. i have a custom 20g on my car with an internal gate, and its got terrible boost creep to 25 psi. its not really a bad problem in my case, since i run more then 25 psi on race gas, and i have an external gate on a 2g manifold sitting in the other room, just gotts get around to putting it on. but if your gonna get a turbo for your street car i do not recomend an internaly gated 20g.

Interesting.. What makes it "custom"? I can turn my boost all the way down to 16 psi. Did you get a bigger flapper at all? Port it right? External o2 dump? If not, how big is o2 housing and the rest of your exhaust? I only have a 34mm flapper.

 

[1SloColt]

This is a no brainer if you ask me. You have a FWD car, and you want boost between 3500-3800rpm, so in this case a simple 20g, even with the tdo6 housing would be f'in butter. In a FWD car, the duration from when boost begins to when it arrives at full boost should be longer. You do this to help prevent blowing the tires off. My 18g on my colt spooled 20psi around 3500rpm, hit very hard and blew tires off 3rd gear until around 6600rpm, or 75mph. My friends colt has a 20g with the tdo5 housing, it spools well and hooks decent on a decent tire which allows it to straight move out without blowing them off too bad.

dsm-onster, you will not need upgraded interals to max out the 18g.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Do it right the First time and get a 50 trim, enough said.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Well, I certainly didn't do it right the first time. First time, I got a Super 60/T25 turbo. Jeez, that was a POS for my goals. Got me to 13.7 in the 1/4, I think.

Second time, I got a small 16G. Better. Got me to a 12.4, eventually.

Third time is the charm, though. I've seen a lot of 50 trims doing a whole lot worse than I am with this 16G. Enough said?

 

[CanadianTSi]

Well, I certainly didn't do it right the first time. First time, I got a Super 60/T25 turbo. Jeez, that was a POS for my goals. Got me to 13.7 in the 1/4, I think.

Second time, I got a small 16G. Better. Got me to a 12.4, eventually.

Third time is the charm, though. I've seen a lot of 50 trims doing a whole lot worse than I am with this 16G. Enough said?

Your the exception to the rule Also your car is quite extensivly modded IMO

For your avergae joe like me with average bolt-on mods I think the 50 trim is perfect, heck I gained 4 tenths and 2mph over my old evo3 16g at the same boost level.