20g - Where's the fast ones

[Tort9320g]

Exactly, everybody brings up Tort or Buschur when it comes to the 20G (they ran 10.xx at 12x mph). Yea, yea, yea.

Thanks for posting up some actual first hand experience with numbers to back it up.

It seems like all the fast (11.xx) times on the 20G are with race gas and lightened up rides.

To optimize this turbo it only makes sense to run race gas, we're not talking about a green or an FP 3052 that thrives on pump gas. As far as weight reduction goes, my main concern was keeping my drive train in tact and chasing Shep's 20g record.

I highly doubt that the 20g would flow 42-44 lbs./min. @ 22-24 psi. Unfortunately, we didn't log enough information to find out.

 

[fwdeclipse]

I recently got my 20g installed with a 15* clip. At 22psi the most I have logged is 36.5lb/min and thats with 272 cams also. I am going to try race gas this year at the track and crank it up to 30psi area and see what happens then.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I recently got my 20g installed with a 15* clip. At 22psi the most I have logged is 36.5lb/min and thats with 272 cams also. I am going to try race gas this year at the track and crank it up to 30psi area and see what happens then.

Not bad, but not as good as you could be with a 20g.
Looking at your profile, there doesnt seem to be any noticable bottle necks in your set up, but Utah sounds pretty high up from sea level, so yea i guess you will have to resort to higher octane and more boost to reach those 40+ lb/min zones.

 

[pboglio]

I recently got my 20g installed with a 15* clip. At 22psi the most I have logged is 36.5lb/min and thats with 272 cams also. I am going to try race gas this year at the track and crank it up to 30psi area and see what happens then.

Boost is everything. I logged last night 39.3 lb/min on ~ 23 psi pump gas, thanks to the 10* frigid air temps. Yep, altitude isn't your friend

News flash: Forced Performance has released their new 20g/TD06SL2.

Forced Performance: DSM 20G-6SL2 Street/Strip Turbo

I knew this thing was coming, I've been holding out until then. I see 46-48 lb/min being pulled out of one. Nice

 

[fwdeclipse]

Not bad, but not as good as you could be with a 20g.
Looking at your profile, there doesnt seem to be any noticable bottle necks in your set up, but Utah sounds pretty high up from sea level, so yea i guess you will have to resort to higher octane and more boost to reach those 40+ lb/min zones.

Yeah I was thinking elevation had something to do with it. I am going to get a 1g throttle body soon and see if that helps any. Do you guys think with having more control with DSMLINK rather than just the dsmchip I could squeeze some more air flow out of it. My buddy that lives here also is running a built 2.3 with a sbr g50 and he is right around the same lb/min but he is on stock cams. I am going external soon so I can turn it up some more, right now the interal gate is blowing open.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Yeah I was thinking elevation had something to do with it. I am going to get a 1g throttle body soon and see if that helps any. Do you guys think with having more control with DSMLINK rather than just the dsmchip I could squeeze some more air flow out of it. My buddy that lives here also is running a built 2.3 with a sbr g50 and he is right around the same lb/min but he is on stock cams. I am going external soon so I can turn it up some more, right now the interal gate is blowing open.

Hmm, ok lets see, an external w.g. will probably improve your boost holding, and max power in the higher rpms were it would likely fall quicker on a internal set up if it truely is leaking or blowing open...

The stock 2g tb is more restrictive than 1g, hit up the junkyard and pull you a non turbo 1g 4g63 tb and do without the elbow. Just get a coupler to attach and maybe slight modification to your current piping. I cant say whether or not that will net you more air flow...

A smim like JMF will likely net you more air flow up top, but on your set up i wouldnt recommend that for a street application considering your still on a "small" turbo persay.

Dsmlink will mainly just give you more flexiability with your tune, and help you "use" the present energy of airflow that you already have to its fullest with a much sharper tune.
The only way it would net you more actual lbs/min of airflow would be if you were able to use it to run much more deeper invovled tunes to tune out knock more for aggressive higher boost.

Another thing, something that worked for me in ecking a little bit more air flow out of my little 16g was doing a custom cold air intake set up. Getting denser ( read more) air inside of the compressor in the first place will mean theres more useable air to be pressureized which may help once your squeezing everything out of your set up and needing to hold higher pressure ratios in higher rpms. A 40-45 deg temp drop can be expected if the CAI is done by completely removing the intake from the engine bay instead of just making a heatshield around it in bay.

 

[pickens]

At 22psi you should be well above 36lb/min. On my evo3 16g I see 39-40 lb/min all day long at 22-23psi. So I'd say your boost is not really at 22psi. have you verified boost w/ a boost sensore or are you just going off the junk autometer. Mine would read 25 psi when I was really only running 20psi.

 

[pickens]

wow. I just looked at FP's new 20G. Good price considering. But what's up with the new Turbine wheel? I never heard of that one?

 

[TurboAnything]

All of you be careful after a summer of racing my buddies 20g has massive thrust play (in and out). I started pulling thing apart to clean it up and noticed the shaft play. I have decided its from the compressor surge. We have been running the 20g with no wastegate pressure i just unhooked the line from the boost controller 32psi and it would surge from like 3000-4400 and it killed the thrust bearing. and all this for only 44lbs/min.

 

[dsm-onster]

Was this a td05h 2g or was it a bigger turbine?

 

[fwdeclipse]

Was this a td05h 2g or was it a bigger turbine?

If your talking to me its a clipped 05h turbine. What exactly do you mean pickens when you say a boost sensor. It is on an autometer guage though.

 

[dsm-onster]

No, I was asking TurboAnything. I figured the turbo he was discussing was a TD05H as well.

 

[TurboAnything]

It is just a tdo5h-20g clipped 15 degrees. I have a 6cm housing on there though so that dose not help but its ported heavy.

 

[dsm-onster]

No that 6cm^2 turbine housing doesn't help at all! Definately contributes to compressor surge.

 

[pickens]

A boost sensor: AEM, or GM 3Bar, and something to log it with. Autometer guages are notorious for being off. My -20-0-30psi gauge read 24psi when I was only running 20psi (as verified by my GM 3.3Bar boost sensor).

 

[aero_sallee]

A boost sensor: AEM, or GM 3Bar, and something to log it with. Autometer guages are notorious for being off. My -20-0-30psi gauge read 24psi when I was only running 20psi (as verified by my GM 3.3Bar boost sensor).

My -30-0-30 Autometer reads high by about 3 psi verified by MAP sensor also.

 

[pickens]

This is why I will never buy another autometer gauge!!!

I'll have better luck getting a Pep Boy's special! Its a shame you can't trust performance parts manufacturers to make quality parts nowadays. So much junk out there you have to be real careful.

 

[T9S1i]

so what mechanical boost gauges are accurate?

 

[FonZ454]

so what mechanical boost gauges are accurate?

I never had a problem with my autometer. Most "higher end" gauges are pretty damn accurate. Best way to test would be verifying with a logged boost source.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

I'm getting 38lbs/min of airflow out of a big16g on a stock 2g intake manifold with BC 272 cams and pumpgas. I have an 06 20g and venom intake manifold going on in roughly 2 weeks. I'll keep you posted.

 

[TurboAnything]

Autometer went down the tubes about 4 years ago even AMS stopped selling them. I have moved on to Stewart Warner they have been around longer then Autometer.

 

[fwdeclipse]

I'm getting 38lbs/min of airflow out of a big16g on a stock 2g intake manifold with BC 272 cams and pumpgas. I have an 06 20g and venom intake manifold going on in roughly 2 weeks. I'll keep you posted.

This is why I was kinda dissapointed in my numbers. You are flowing 2lb/min more on a 16g. If my boost guage was off by 3 psi that would put me at around 18 19psi and I guess that would make sense. Do you have to have dsmlink to log with a map sensor.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

I'm getting 38lbs/min of airflow out of a big16g on a stock 2g intake manifold with BC 272 cams and pumpgas. I have an 06 20g and venom intake manifold going on in roughly 2 weeks. I'll keep you posted.

The venom intake isn't on yet, but I have some numbers. I got 40lbs/min at 21psi. This is still on the stock intake manifold and 1g throttle body. I did not port the inlet on the manifold so how good the larger throttle body is to me, I'm not so sure. The venom goes on in another 2 weeks. I will update then.

 

[dsm-onster]

Good numbers! Glad to see you got flow numbers BEFORE the SMIM install.

What boost was the big 16g running when it flowed 38 lbs/min for you? I'm assuming the altitudes where the logs took place were nearly identical. What was this intake temp for both runs? I'm not questioning your results, just curios to see a great comparison of results.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Boost for the 16g was around 23.5psi. Intake temps were in the low 80's. I've gotten 40lbs/min with the 16g but at nearly 25psi. I tune for high boost/low timing with a safe AFR, low 11's, regardless of what kind of gas I use.

With the 20g pull, the intake temps went from 70 to 74 degrees. When I get the SMIM on, I'll log a run at 21psi and see what I gained. Also, I plan on turning the boost up another 2psi before hand. I'll post a comparison of results.

I'm just worried now about my stock shortblock. Although compression is still very well, its high on mileage. I'm hoping it will hold off until I can get a few passes at the track. Then if it blows, I'll just park it until I recoup some funds during the "too hott to race" summer months. Wish me luck!