20g installed getting impressed. rounding out my tune...

[GSLENK]

I must be missing something simple.

No boost leaks. I tested with the 14b on, and didnt touch IC piping all the way around when doing the swap.

I logged at 10 psi just to be sure I wasnt gonna over run injectors. then I turned it up to ~18 psi (injectors max out at 97 IDC so ill turn it back down a bit...)

I could tell the diff between 10 and 18, and the turbo did hit, just not like I expected it to, and certainly not as hard as the 14b hit...

HELP! I know this should be way faster...

 

[GSLENK]

We cant tell if its tdo5 or o6 with out a picture of the turbine wheel.

Some tdo5 20gs have td06 compressor housings.

If its tdo6 then the turbo is pointless until 25+ psi. You wont ever get its potential untill you turn you boost up

Looks like Im gonna have to test justin's memory for that one. would a pic or the compressor wheel help? or a you need a pic of the turbine wheel? because, for obvious reasons, If I dont have one laying around then that pic aint happening...

Also good to know. I hope I have that 25 psi+ monster... Is it like another kick on top of the 16-ish psi kick? because 0-11 psi feels relatively the same, (unlike the 14b) , then there's a kick right around 14-16 idk exactly but it happens.

 

[atownturbo]

You could pm Justin and ask if by chance he remembers if it was 05 or 06?

 

[GSLENK]

I have my knock sensor to come on at 2500rpm with over 35% throttle. I also have my knock CEL set to 1* timing pulled from knock. But I'm ultra paranoid as I built the engine myself and have seen the effects of knock firsthand.

If the TPS isn't going to 100% you need to adjust it with link. Just do a full sweep from foot off the gas to fully floored. Then right click the data log and hit the TPS adjust option. It will automatically adjust the TPS and all you have to do is hit save.

Thanks, I should see no negative effects from being equally paranoid right? Id rather my engine last longer than go a c-hair faster. Im def with you on that boat. And I see no point in over abusing a 26k mile factory engine that runs really tight.

My TPS is calibrated. Its my foot that isnt . I have to work on that. I guess I push the gas pedal at the bottom half of the pedal and not the top half. with my foot on the top half it goes to 100% and is 100% open, perfectly parallel to airflow.


Its a td05 exhaust wheel. I was under the impression that the compressor was the main limiting factor, the tdo6 turbine would just flow exhaust better, and create more lag (with a tad more power up at the tippy top i suppose)

 

[dsm_92_fwd]

More boost and that turbo will come alive. My super 16g (16g housing, 20g wheels, upgraded compressor housing) came alive after 20+psi

 

[tron2119]

Ok one real bad thing I see is that you aren't letting the ecu pick up knock til 7500rpm...so you don't even know if your tune is safe. Go to the ALS/Knock-->then lower the ''activate with rpm'' value to around 2500. Then you can see if your PIG RICH tune is knocking.

Oh ya, and lean it out. Have you even looked at your max octane tables? You're in the 9's:1 AFR. Thats going to make you loose power. Lean it out. Then you can start messing with that funky timing table. 14 degrees seems high for pump 93...but we'll never know without the knock sensor being logged.

Don't mean to come off rude, just want to help. Sounds kinda rude above, but that is not my intent

 

[WES_393]

Thanks, I should see no negative effects from being equally paranoid right?

Nope. Some people just don't like seeing the knock light for "no reason" but it's important to me that I'm not knocking 500rpm before the turbo begins to spool. If you get knock down there, it'll most likely happen at the top as well. And to me any knock isn't acceptable where some will let up to 1* slide. That's why I have the CEL come on if I get over 1*, that way I know to let off the gas and find out what's going on before trying again.

 

[GSLENK]

Ok one real bad thing I see is that you aren't letting the ecu pick up knock til 7500rpm...so you don't even know if your tune is safe. Go to the ALS/Knock-->then lower the ''activate with rpm'' value to around 2500. Then you can see if your PIG RICH tune is knocking.

Oh ya, and lean it out. Have you even looked at your max octane tables? You're in the 9's:1 AFR. Thats going to make you loose power. Lean it out. Then you can start messing with that funky timing table. 14 degrees seems high for pump 93...but we'll never know without the knock sensor being logged.

Don't mean to come off rude, just want to help. Sounds kinda rude above, but that is not my intent

Not rude at all, especially considering how constructive it is...

So My plan is, setup the knock more conservatively (more sensitive to knock) reset global fuel. (its no wonder Im getting such shitty mileage...) then work on "leaning it out" And I dont know whats som funky about the timing table (I dont doubt you, I just dont know what funky looks like)

Thanks for being so "rude"

Oh wow. I finally looked at the max octane timing I wish I knew more about tuning sooner. Should it look somewhat like the min octane map? but a little more advance? I see what you mean by the ugly 14 section.

 

[tron2119]

First lower the knock rpm and then do a third gear pull from about 2500rpm to red line and post up that log so we can see what needs to be done.

Also,what really helped me see what everything (especially in the DA tables) was suppose to look like was to go to the tuning and engine management forum (and log file advice) and downloaded peoples files with similar setups. It helped a ton. You can even download their fuel and timing tables for a great start and modify it to your liking.

 

[JusMX141]

You could pm Justin and ask if by chance he remembers if it was 05 or 06?

It's a TD05H 20G. This is proven by the use of an eBay Evo III turbine housing...you can't cut an Evo III turbine housing to fit a TD06/06H turbine.

It's a Genuine turbo with a knockoff turbine housing, which shouldn't effect performance at all.

 

[GSLENK]

Heres a new baseline after I got rid of most of the funkyness. I didnt drive yet because I think my max oct timing tables may be too high even though they are factory.

I also "leaned" the top end out a bit from 9s to 11s target afr. give me the go ahead and I will do some test pulls

oops forgot log earlier... hereitis

 

[fran_drivertsi]

Looks much better. Why do you have narrowband simulation if you have a real wideband? Also, you should probably disable MAF if you are running SD.

 

[GSLENK]

I thought narrow-band sim was for the factory ecu? no? Then I must have missed the point of doing it. I personally dont use it but I thought the factory ecu used that instead of a wideband signal? Should I just cancel the NB sim?

and I thought I disabled the maf by running SD. I didnt see any other checkboxes anywhere to "disable MAF" unless I am blind or missed something (which I am obviousley capable of doing)

And the target afrs and timing tables look ok (conservative enough) to safely do some pulls?

Did a pull,or started to, then started knocking.

Ok so I hit 2.5 then ~5-6 counts of knock. What do I do there? add fuel? pull timing? how much?

(around 255 second mark)

 

[KeelesKustome]

I'm keeping an eye n your progress, I'd like to see your latest 3rd gear pull for 3000- redline.

 

[GSLENK]

Ill post it in a day or 2. I had some misfire problems, when I hit 19 psi. Got some new spark plugs, and ill get back into it this evening probably. they are a bit hotter heat range than I want (I want 7s, I have 6s...) so that may create problems at 19+ psi... but I'm ordering the 7s now.

I have adjusted my global higher (towards zero) a bit to get my upper rpms' afrs in check.

 

[kchaazz]

Try some BR7ES, vs BPR7ES. The tips of the BR are non protruded and cured my knock trouble on 93 pump @ 25psi on a TD05H 18G. I believe I gapped them to .026

 

[tron2119]

I thought narrow-band sim was for the factory ecu? no? Then I must have missed the point of doing it. I personally dont use it but I thought the factory ecu used that instead of a wideband signal? Should I just cancel the NB sim?

and I thought I disabled the maf by running SD. I didnt see any other checkboxes anywhere to "disable MAF" unless I am blind or missed something (which I am obviousley capable of doing)

And the target afrs and timing tables look ok (conservative enough) to safely do some pulls?

Did a pull,or started to, then started knocking.

Ok so I hit 2.5 then ~5-6 counts of knock. What do I do there? add fuel? pull timing? how much?

(around 255 second mark)

I would add fuel in the affected areas. Maybe go with a 10.8:1 ratio. If that's not taking care of the knock I would drop timing in the affected areas a degree, see if that works, if not drop another degree. This is within reason. If you have to drop a stupid amount then there is another problem. TBD.

Do you know how to track you data logs in the DA tables? Its a very useful tool to help you pinpoint exactly where your tune needs help.

Last but not least, do a 3rd gear pull from 3000rpm to red line with your foot TO THE FLOOR. I know your foot doesn't want to...but it has to.

After all this, I hope she's the beast you wanted. TD05H 20g's are super fun in my book. Very capable turbo.

Try some BR7ES, vs BPR7ES. The tips of the BR are non protruded and cured my knock trouble on 93 pump @ 25psi on a TD05H 18G. I believe I gapped them to .026

^^+1 on this

 

[boost97gst]

ok, in you rlast pull you posted i noticed when the knock came on and you started to really flow, the actual afr dipped to 12.1. Thats too lean. 11.2 is a good number for 93 octane. You need to get the afr down more then do another pull. If you get your actual afr to 11.2 or thereabouts and STILL have knock, then open the timing DA table(maxoct nott min) and track datalog. You will see the cell light up where you knocked. Back that timing off a couple degrees, rinse and repeat.

Tron! you beat me

 

[GSLENK]

Well it was wires. just put on some new NGKs... BAck to tuning (I hope I dont max out the BPR6EY that I had to get from autozone, only NGK copper that fit + in shock anywhere in my area)

Ill get a new datalog up tonight If I cannot find the latest successful one. the last one up there is a bit out dated. lean, and knocking. not really anymore...

And I think its about time to upgrade link IIRC, Im running out of load factor .

Heres the latest log (not new) on current tune before misses. LMK what you think. its 2.5k to7k, just the pull

All I did was drop my global from -55% to ~-51%(raise technically, it moved closer to 0... less negative is more positive)

Was that too low?

Do you know how to track you data logs in the DA tables? Its a very useful tool to help you pinpoint exactly where your tune needs help.

Last but not least, do a 3rd gear pull from 3000rpm to red line with your foot TO THE FLOOR. I know your foot doesn't want to...but it has to.

I use datalog tracking and bring to top and fade, since I only have a baby netbook...

And yes I kept my foot 100%, 99% of the time, I let off a hair when I saw cel, but said F-it against my better judgement. thankfully it was only a few counts, and it didn't hurt anything...

 

[Tyeler18]

That last log doesn't look TOO bad. There's a few BIG issues I see that are causing it to feel slow.

1) Obviously the knock is pulling timing, it appears for the most part the beginning of your pull is WAY too lean for pump gas. 12's for AFR in boost is going to cause knock (like it is) on pump 93. Try and get your pull to around low 11's throughout the full pull and maybe dip into the 10's at 5500+.

2) Timing is incredibly low (pulling it from knock isn't helping any either). I'm seeing like 11 degrees peak timing, were running 23psi on our E316g and peak is around 15. Making up that timing throughout the entire powerband will GREATLY improve your spool and power.

The way I tune personally is by setting up my AFR's FIRST. I will run low low timing, and dial in my AFR's exactly* where I want them (11's/high 10's on the pump 91 I'm using). Once I can do a full 3rd gear pull and have my AFR's line up how I want them, then I'll start throwing timing at it. I keep advancing timing until I see knock, then I'll back it off 1-2 degrees to stay safe. It's always worked perfect for me. Also for quicker spool you can throw quite a bit of timing at it pre*boost, once you start to spool you'll want to back way off the timing again and progressively grow into your peak, but don't start throwing 25+ degrees at it when you're in boost.

 

[GSLENK]

Keep the advice coming! thanks! But I fail to see where Im too lean are you sure you looked at the last log? (in the post immediately above yours)
My afr from 3.5k-4.2k is around 11.5 to 11. and from 4.3 on its right around 10 and lower.

I know I need more timing added back in. I took a lot out instead of adding fuel.

I think im gonna start again with the evo3 mod1 maps on timing. I think my fuel is adequate, (But for real, LMK if i am wrong) its just as you describe, gets into 12s under 3.5k, then quickly to 11 ish, then onto low 10s and below to redline.

 

[Tyeler18]

Just checked again and yes you are too lean in boost. Look at ~3 seconds+ where it first starts knocking. Your MAP sensor is logging 9lbs of boost and climbing with an AFR in the 12.5's.

 

[KeelesKustome]

I'm posting this log so you can see where you should at least be with a little more boost. You'll see a 2nd gear pull, and how the increasing timing map really helps the top end pull much harder. The other thread I posted in will show my timing maxes out at 19* at 8,000 rpm's and it's still pulling hard when I shift, by reving it out, it allows for my shifts to put me in my Peek torque range for the next gear.


mods: 98 gsx, A/T 6 bolt, bse, MM oil filter, manley rods, .020 O 9:5:1 mahle forge pistons, magnus HBG, Injen Intake hacked maf, 3000gt 60mm TB, Apexi N1 31/2" Ex, NGK Plug Wires, 2g coilpack, rre rewire, pte 880 FI, 255 FP,AFPR, 20g buschur P&C turbo, OBX v2 ExMani, street gate EW with, kiggly A/T adapter for 2g, ets FMIC, ssq hks bov, hallman mbc, roadsurge DIY paddle shifter . Trans gauge & cooler, Arp head studs, OEM HG,sodium valves, LC1 WB, fluid dampener UP, 546/547 web cams, bpr7es ngk .017

 

[boost97gst]

I'm posting this log so you can see where you should at least be with a little more boost. You'll see a 2nd gear pull, and how the increasing timing map really helps the top end pull much harder. The other thread I posted in will show my timing maxes out at 19* at 8,000 rpm's and it's still pulling hard when I shift, by reving it out, it allows for my shifts to put me in my Peek torque range for the next gear.


mods: 98 gsx, A/T 6 bolt, bse, MM oil filter, manley rods, .020 O 9:5:1 mahle forge pistons, magnus HBG, Injen Intake hacked maf, 3000gt 60mm TB, Apexi N1 31/2" Ex, NGK Plug Wires, 2g coilpack, rre rewire, pte 880 FI, 255 FP,AFPR, 20g buschur P&C turbo, OBX v2 ExMani, street gate EW with, kiggly A/T adapter for 2g, ets FMIC, ssq hks bov, hallman mbc, roadsurge DIY paddle shifter . Trans gauge & cooler, Arp head studs, OEM HG,sodium valves, LC1 WB, fluid dampener UP, 546/547 web cams, bpr7es ngk .017

Out of curiousity, could you run a bit leaner in that pull? I noticed knock but it was so small it didnt matter. Seemed like your actual afr of 10.1 give or take was working for you there. Im going to hopefully start tuning a similiar turbo tonight(fingers crossed). I was under the impression on 93oct low 11's were good afrs.

 

[KeelesKustome]

Jeffgst, and all the top guys, told me to keep it this rich untill i start adding water/meth, as 93 octain isn't the best for the numbers I'm flowing, I've ran 48lbs a min at 33 psi, but without meth, I just battled knock.

 

[Tyeler18]

Jeffgst, and all the top guys, told me to keep it this rich untill i start adding water/meth, as 93 octain isn't the best for the numbers I'm flowing, I've ran 48lbs a min at 33 psi, but without meth, I just battled knock.

^^ This. He's got a 9.5:1 block, you'll either sacrifice timing, or fuel to prevent knock on pump gas. In this case fuel.