2.3L Stroker Oil Control Ring

[DNA666]

Has anyone not used these before? What were the results?

 

[92redman]

Are you asking if you can leave out the oil control rings? What problem needs diagnosing?

 

[DNA666]

Are you asking if you can leave out the oil control rings? What problem needs diagnosing?

There is an 6th ring that comes with the stroker pistons. It is supposed to go under the 3 oil control rings. Something to due with the wrist pin being so high it runs into the oiling groove.

My engine is burning oil like 1-2 quarts per tank of gas and more if I am really getting into boost. Blueish smoke as well.

When the turbo is not spooling I don't see this smoke. I was a dumbass and did not install these rings on my pistons because they would not fit like they did on my friends wiseco's. There jsut wasn't room for them on the Mnaley pistons. So I have the same looking ring setup on these stroker pistons that you would see on a stock piston.

Compression is 175 across all 4 cylinders and there is roughly 1500 miles on the engine. I also have alot of oil in my intake snorkel and have seen oil puddled up before in the turbo inlet so I thought it was the turbo but now I am wondering about assembly error.

 

[underpressure25]

That sounds like your turbo is where your oil burning is coming from. As far as the oil rings on the piston I would have installed them as well if they came withe the setup, but I would call whom ever you got the pistons from to ask that question.
Good Luck

 

[GTM]

That sounds like your turbo is where your oil burning is coming from. As far as the oil rings on the piston I would have installed them as well if they came withe the setup, but I would call whom ever you got the pistons from to ask that question.
Good Luck

You are right about the good luck. Having parts left over after a rebuild is brutal. Usually piston ring makers will indicate if there are more than one option for installing rings. At that point he should have walked away from the job until he found answers. They do make 4 part oil control rings which include an expander underneath, a spreader, and the 2 actual wiping rings held in position by the spreader. Not having any one of these is a serious breach if they were called for in the assembly.

I think he is going to have to find the maker, provide the numbers and application, draw some pictures of what he did and go from there. Until he resolves this it's probably futile to get into possible turbo seal leaks.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[DNA666]

You are right about the good luck. Having parts left over after a rebuild is brutal. Usually piston ring makers will indicate if there are more than one option for installing rings. At that point he should have walked away from the job until he found answers. They do make 4 part oil control rings which include an expander underneath, a spreader, and the 2 actual wiping rings held in position by the spreader. Not having any one of these is a serious breach if they were called for in the assembly.

I think he is going to have to find the maker, provide the numbers and application, draw some pictures of what he did and go from there. Until he resolves this it's probably futile to get into possible turbo seal leaks.

Cheers,
GTM

I spent the last 2 days driving around and made it a point to not get into boost. The result was not an single drop of lost or burned oil. That combined with perfect compression leads me to believe that it has to be the turbo. Stock T25 going on tonight after work.

 

[GTM]

I spent the last 2 days driving around and made it a point to not get into boost. The result was not an single drop of lost or burned oil. That combined with perfect compression leads me to believe that it has to be the turbo. Stock T25 going on tonight after work.

I'm not sure if that is a meaningful observation since you are not stressing the engine, high RPM, or high vacuum drawing oil past the rings. Can't say I blame you and it may be easier than trying to get to the bottom of the ring issue much less than the repairs.

Do consider that if rings are not properly installed you could destroy pistons and cylinders. You would have good compression if you were not wiping oil off the cylr walls so that doesn't help.

Even if the turbo solves the problem I would follow up with the ring questions for you don't want to be looking for another block and pistons in 10k miles.

Let us know how things develop.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[DNA666]

I'm not sure if that is a meaningful observation since you are not stressing the engine, high RPM, or high vacuum drawing oil past the rings. Can't say I blame you and it may be easier than trying to get to the bottom of the ring issue much less than the repairs.

Do consider that if rings are not properly installed you could destroy pistons and cylinders. You would have good compression if you were not wiping oil off the cylr walls so that doesn't help.

Even if the turbo solves the problem I would follow up with the ring questions for you don't want to be looking for another block and pistons in 10k miles.

Let us know how things develop.

Cheers,
GTM

It's not the turbo. Someone at work thinks it's the valve seals on the head. I drove 20 minutes last night with the T25 at 10PSI and was getting on it pretty good and used about 1/2 a quart of oil to give you an idea. So after switching the T28 for the T25 I am still losing alot of oil.

I think it's assembly error on my part.

Does anyone know if a hone and new rings should be sufficient? Or would a bore and new oversized pistons be the choice?

 

[GTM]

It's not the turbo. Someone at work thinks it's the valve seals on the head. I drove 20 minutes last night with the T25 at 10PSI and was getting on it pretty good and used about 1/2 a quart of oil to give you an idea. So after switching the T28 for the T25 I am still losing alot of oil.

I think it's assembly error on my part.

Does anyone know if a hone and new rings should be sufficient? Or would a bore and new oversized pistons be the choice?

Sorry to hear that. I seriously doubt it's valve guide seals especially if you changed them.

How many miles since you put this on the road? I've only seen this a couple times in my life and it wasn't good. In one case it made some big scratches where the end of the ring and expander rubbed against the cylr. In the other case they broke the ring which allowed it to flutter in the groove thus wearing the groove too wide.

The somewhat good news is these do NOT affect compression and unless the cylr wall is badly scratched a bead hone may clean it up. You will ONLY need to hone to the top of the oil ring swept area so won't impose a taper. The problem with a taper is it causes rings to flex as the diameter changes thus reducing the ring's designed function. I don't think that's going to be an real issue.

How hard was it to get those rings to compress when you installed them? Was there any part of the spacer or expander contacting the cylr wall?

The fix: At this point I would not trust the oil rings and would suggest you find a _very_ competent machine shop to fit new oil rings. They may have to re-cut the oil ring groove to accept a wider, possibly thicker control ring. This is not an expensive process and can be done with a hand tool or a lathe. They may have to order them but hopefully won't try to charge you for a full set which you probably don't need. You may have to have the pistons dipped in Carb cleaner to remove any baked on carbon from all the oil burning. It's important the compression rings have the proper clearances for if there is carbon build up they will break into a hundred pieces and destroy piston grooves.

You of course are to be beaten with a wet noodle about the head and shoulders in a public place. "An ounce of prevention is worth ~" When you don't know, ASK before not after. There are plenty of people here that with a picture or URL could have told you how to assemble them. You probably didn't destroy the engine as some have done, you will have a little bruised pride but a good wake-up call to not guess. Hopefully you won't have to replace too many gaskets, leave the manifolds on if possible unless you question those valve seals.

Let us know what you find and ask questions.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[DNA666]

I'm not following you on your first paragraph. I have 5 rings currently installed. If you look at a stock piston's rings then that is how mine look exactly.

I am missing an extra ring that comes with the stroker pistons. I assume it's another ring to prevent oil loss because of the wristpin being so high that it goes into the oiling grooves on the piston?

How would that ring not being there damage scratch the cylinder wall?

To answer your question I have 1500 miles on it. I plan on taking it apart next Friday and hopefully everything is in good enough condition that I can either hone the walls and put it back together with new rings.

 

[GTM]

I'm not following you on your first paragraph. I have 5 rings currently installed. If you look at a stock piston's rings then that is how mine look exactly. I am missing an extra ring that comes with the stroker pistons. I assume it's another ring to prevent oil loss because of the wristpin being so high that it goes into the oiling grooves on the piston? How would that ring not being there damage scratch the cylinder wall?
...

I'm not a DSM expert and I'm working from a temp 6 gig hard drive and don't have any DSM material or picts of pistons available.

Let's see if I'm up to speed, you omitted one complete oil ring AND you had assembly problems installing another oil ring???

The missing oil ring won't cause any damage other than oil consumption. If you botched another oil ring assembly sequence or for that matter any ring install you will have problems. Ring installer pliers can distort them so only minimum pressure required for opening is required.

Cheers,
GTM