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1G 1g rear brake upgrade

noV8undrDIShood

Proven Member
245
0
Jan 6, 2010
Lewistown, Pennsylvania
hey guys... got a quick question.. i know there are already threads about this but they are not answering what i want to know. i just got done with the 4pot caliper swap from the 3kgt vr4 on the front and now the rar calipers are going out.. i have looked all over the internet and cannot find a good enough picture or information...

ANYWAYS i need to know if the 3kgt vr4's had a cabled e brake system.. i am looking to put a taller rotor and the 2pot caliper off the "2g" 3kgt vr4's..

thanks in advanced guys
 

redline6k

Proven Member
85
0
Sep 22, 2002
Fall River, Massachusetts
2pot caliper? because they changed the brake system in like may of 93 on the 3000gt vr4's.. and im pretty sure they went from a single piston to a dual on the rear

Your correct but its does not have the e brake built into the caliper like the 1g dsm. the 3kgt has a parking brake drum system like the 2g dsm. I'm sure you could make a custom bracket to mount the 3kgt rear calipers but you would loose your e brake.
 

redline6k

Proven Member
85
0
Sep 22, 2002
Fall River, Massachusetts
yeah i forgot about that. do you know of any rear calipers that would be two piston that had the built in ebrake lever.

Ive never seen a dual piston with a built in e brake there usually just single piston. I know the bentley turbo r had 2 rear calipers. One was dual piston for regualr brakes and one for just the ebrake.

Here's a picture of what im talking about

You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 

pagosa dsm

Proven Member
392
16
May 7, 2005
pagosa springs, Colorado
I just finished 96 corvette calipers and 12" rotors on the rear. They are working fine. For me it was not easy to fabb them. I had about 50 hours of fabb work to mount them.Everything was a problem. Good luck mounting a 4 piston with a hand brake caliper on the front end of the trailing arm. You can see all the photos in my gallery.
Rick
 

noV8undrDIShood

Proven Member
245
0
Jan 6, 2010
Lewistown, Pennsylvania
no i am looking for a 2 piston for the rear.. i just upgraded my front to 13.1" cobra rotors with the 4 piston vr4 rotors.. redline posted the pic to the turbo bently with the seperate "caliper" for the ebrake..

nice work with the vett calipers though.. im pretty sur i read your rightup in the custom fab forum abut those
 

AndrewD5418

Proven Member
1,305
15
Feb 16, 2006
West Bend, Wisconsin
The 3000gt vr4 has the same rear brake system as the 2g dsm.
However, their trailing arms are relatively the same I believe.

Maybe look into seeing if it's possible to swap over trailing arms, hubs, and see what you can do for axles.
 

eclipsh

Proven Member
1,606
53
Jun 16, 2005
Durango, Colorado
Have you tried switching to better pads up front or upgrading the front caliper/rotor setup? You're likely to see more out of upgrading the front at this point than the rear. Rick's rear brake upgrade came after upgrading to Mustang Cobra calipers in the front. He was balancing the system.
 

MidShipCivic

Proven Member
718
8
Apr 22, 2005
Orlando, Florida
Honda's Civic in the early 90's came with out rear disc brakes and used integra's as donors trailing arms were swapped just like this.

A slide caliper is a cruddy brake that shouldn't be used as brakes at all you'd be able to use EVO rear brakes on those trailing arms, so for you purist of the brake peddal this is your chance.
 

Ludachris

Founder & Zookeeper
7,625
2,005
Nov 12, 2001
Newcastle, California
It'd be nice if we could just find a way to adapt a 3kgt rear brake caliper (with e-brake, which would be the 2g 3kgt) to a 1g trailing arm and just use the TCE big rear rotor upgrade. Todd has a Wilwood combo parking brake caliper listed on the site, I'll send him a note to see if that could work with our cars. That would be ideal for those of us using his front kit.
 

Ludachris

Founder & Zookeeper
7,625
2,005
Nov 12, 2001
Newcastle, California
Just got a reply from Todd. He has a caliper that would work in the rear of a 1g and retain the e-brake:

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"Combo Parking Brake caliper. A caliper to address the needs for a matching rear kit! The P-brake caliper will fit discs up to 14" in diameter and 1.10" wide. The caliper is of single piston floating design yet gives the outward appearance of a multi-piston unit. The lever actuator for the parking brake cable will accept a number of oem ends and can be customized to fit nearly any use. *Note however that this caliper is not a racing caliper nor a direct substitute for oem without the need for custom radial mount brackets and proper cables. Available in two piston sizes. "

TCE Performance Products - Producing Winning Results since 1993

You can then go with the 2-piece hat/rotor combo (12.2" x 1.10" vented). The downside, it wouldn't be cheap, probably about $1200 for the complete rear kit. But you'd have a brand new kit that would match a front TCE kit if you wanted. Looks like it would match the Billet 6-piston calipers (BSL) perfectly.

I'm sure few DSMers would go this route due to the cost, but I thought I'd let you all know what's available. I asked Todd if he'd post the option on his site to at least show the DSM crowd it is available. As far as I know, this is the only true aftermarket option that doesn't require fabrication and conversions/swaps.
 

ramsack

Proven Member
3,286
17
Dec 27, 2007
West Lawn, Pennsylvania
The 3000gt rear trailing arm looks identical to that of an AWD 1g. I would be interested in getting measurements to compare. The rest of the suspension arms look identical, too. I would like to know if the front knuckles could be swapped over, too. Then one could just bolt everything that is almost the same that fits, and can use a full set of 3000gt brakes with no fabrication.
 

Ludachris

Founder & Zookeeper
7,625
2,005
Nov 12, 2001
Newcastle, California
From what I read about the fronts, the axle splines are not the same, nor are the bearings. So you'd have to do something about custom axles, which might make it just as/more expensive than just going with an aftermarket brake kit that fits the factory spindles.

As for the rear, the only data I could find is from that link I posted above to GVR4.org. The guy didn't do a whole lot of accurate measurements, so I'm not sure how different the fit and geometry actually is - it looks like they stick out 10-20mm more than stock. It didn't seem like the axle splines were different, or at least he didn't mention it. He did mention something about the e-brake cable lengths being different but didn't say what he did to solve the issue. If all you had to buy were used 3kgt rear trailing arms, used 2g 3kgt rear calipers and rotors, and maybe e-brake cables, it might be a cheaper alternative to the TCE kit. Who wants to try it and let us know?
 

Ludachris

Founder & Zookeeper
7,625
2,005
Nov 12, 2001
Newcastle, California
So the guy posted all the summary for the rear 3kgt swap on page 6 here"
TH3 Lazy arse Australian / New Zealand Picture build thread Page 6 | Galant VR-4 > General VR4 Discussions | GalantVR-4.org Mitsubishi Galant VR4 Forum

Do a Control-F for "RedTwo"... the post is just past halfway down the page. When you're done reading, scroll down and look at the widebody GVR-4... NICE.

I think the swap has me a little concerned about changing the geometry. It might only be 10mm, but that could change things a bit. I don't know that I want to add a spacer to the front to even things out. Then I'd really need to think about flared fenders.
 

ramsack

Proven Member
3,286
17
Dec 27, 2007
West Lawn, Pennsylvania
The fronts are more like a 2g style with the whole wheel bearing and hub bolting on by 4 bolts. The 3000gt axle is 27 splines and a DSM is 25 splines.

The 3000gt bearing dimensions:

Wheel Bearing I.D. : 45 mm
Wheel Bearing O.D. : 84 mm
Wheel Bearing Width : 41 mm

The 1g wheel bearing dimensions:

Wheel Bearing I.D. : 40 mm
Wheel Bearing O.D. : 80 mm
Wheel Bearing Width : 36 mm

Those are close approximations, converted to metric, off by a few thousandths. The only thing I could think of doing would be like Ludachris said, a custom axle. I have no idea what would be involved in that, but the outer part has to change. The rear being kicked out by 1/2" to 1" would be a good thing, at least for me :) As for the rear hubs, the only data I can find is about the rear wheel bearings. They are identical, so part of the hubs are. They are probably only wider to accommodate the drum e-brake. I would like to try down the road.
 

Ludachris

Founder & Zookeeper
7,625
2,005
Nov 12, 2001
Newcastle, California
The fronts are more like a 2g style with the whole wheel bearing and hub bolting on by 4 bolts. The 3000gt axle is 27 splines and a DSM is 25 splines.

The 3000gt bearing dimensions:

Wheel Bearing I.D. : 45 mm
Wheel Bearing O.D. : 84 mm
Wheel Bearing Width : 41 mm

The 1g wheel bearing dimensions:

Wheel Bearing I.D. : 40 mm
Wheel Bearing O.D. : 80 mm
Wheel Bearing Width : 36 mm

Those are close approximations, converted to metric, off by a few thousandths. The only thing I could think of doing would be like Ludachris said, a custom axle. I have no idea what would be involved in that, but the outer part has to change. The rear being kicked out by 1/2" to 1" would be a good thing, at least for me :) As for the rear hubs, the only data I can find is about the rear wheel bearings. They are identical, so part of the hubs are. They are probably only wider to accommodate the drum e-brake. I would like to try down the road.
I'm sure DriveShaftShop or any drive shaft company could build custom axles... but for how much? That's the question. Would it be a better solution than just going with a TCE brake kit and keeping the stock front spindles? I don't know. The rear is more intriguing because you can get 2-piston calipers, bigger rotors, and retain the e-brake. I just wonder how easy it would be to find the parts locally and what the cost for those parts would be.

Hell, I've been wondering how feasible it would be to chop off the trailing arm from the rear hub and replace the bulky metal with tubular pieces. It would reduce weight, create more space for wheels, and solve the toe control bushing issue. But that's a little more radical I know.
 

ramsack

Proven Member
3,286
17
Dec 27, 2007
West Lawn, Pennsylvania
For my car I would rather keep the almost exact 180° separation on the calipers. I don't like the kits or brackets that clock the calipers differently. They are at that place for a reason :) If all they were worried about was center of gravity then engineers could put calipers smack dab on the bottoms. I also don't like the look of bracketed EVO calipers that change the clocking of the caliper. But that's just me, and me knowing where the calipers really sit. But caliper position is something that is extremely debated and always will be.

Making a tubular trailing arm would be awesome. An entire different-armed rear suspension would be awesome.
 
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