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1g innards into 2g housing

Posted by Baymax, Nov 21, 2019

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  1. Baymax

    Baymax Probationary Member

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    Joined Jul 26, 2018
    Taylorsville, Kentucky
    Typing this on my phone so I need to make sure what I say comes across clearly. If it doesnt, I apologize and will try to be as clear as possible.

    I currently own a 98 GSX with a sh** ton of mods. I bought it this way, if you have a problem with the built not bought crap, stop reading now, I’m new to cars and a buddy said he’d help and so far has been none. That being said, the motor is a 6 bolt swap with upgraded internals. I’ll have to go through the box of receipts to confirm the year the motor came out of. The transmission is a shepherd stage 2 I believe it is. Again, will have to go through receipts to confirm 100%.

    I am building this car as an auto cross and track vehicle, first time I took it out I launched too hard and broke the center diff from what I can deduce.

    I purchased a Team Racing Engineering built transmission from a friend with an impressive build sheet including the upgraded center diff that I need.

    Now to my question: the TRE trans I bought is out of an earlier vehicle, a 91 I believe. Obviously the bell housings are different and I’ll have to change it, and I read here some other pieces will have to be swapped, but with the upgrades to the new trans I’m not 100% on what will have to go. If anyone could please help I’d greatly appreciate it. I’m not in a huge rush, so if swapping everything from one housing to another is all I need, then fantastic, if not what should I do.

    ***NOTE*** sell the trans and buy a different one isn’t a path I really want to go down unless I can get one of equal value and so far I’ve not seen one.
     

    Attached Files:

    Autocross Build 536  2

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    331 whp · 300 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  2. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

    5,152
    1,014
    Joined Nov 19, 2011
    oklahoma city, Oklahoma
    It isnt that simple. There are small changes that you will have to look for. If you're doing an entire swap case to case most should fit
    The gotchas would be shift rails and forks and the 5th end case and synchro. You could mix and match some stuff but without knowing what gear set is in either its impossible to know what will swap unless you're familiar with year to year changes. It's very doable but will likely require a little investigation
     

    Street Build 3K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  3. Baymax

    Baymax Probationary Member

    11
    0
    Joined Jul 26, 2018
    Taylorsville, Kentucky
    I see... I’ve got the receipt with the gear set info in the pics, I may have the receipt for what’s in there now as well, I just have to go through the box of receipts I have. I was ideally wanting to do entire swap to swap but that’s not looking plausible anymore. Sucks since i dropped a pretty penny after doing what i thought was enough research. Turns out I may be screwed for the time being. Or best case weld up and fab some new brackets and make this housing work.

     

    Autocross Build 536  2

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    331 whp · 300 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  4. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

    3,242
    660
    Joined Mar 12, 2004
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    I also responded to your PM, but this is pertinent information to anyone doing this swap -

    Per PM -
    Well, it is not as short and simple as just swapping a bellhousing.

    The transmissions need to be completely torn down.

    You will need to use the 2G DSM transmission case (the bellhousing, gear cluster case section, bearing plate (only interchangeable part), and 5th gearset cover (the early 5th covers are different than the 1991.5-1999 covers so that is why I am saying you need a matching set; it will be obvious when disassembled and there is a different style 5th gearset in the 1G transmission; if they are the same gearset dimensionally, then you can use either 5th gear cover).

    Now, it is also going to depend on the internal components installed in either one as for parts interchangeability. The reverse idler gear and shaft is specific to the 2g transmission case and you will need to use that. The reverse idler gear lever should be the same.

    The shift selector assembly (not the external lever; the internal shift selector tab and cage that actuates the shift rails) has two variations; a 1989-1991.5 version with a longer protruding tab from the cage, than the 1991.6-1999 style shorter tab. The cages are the same; the selector tab length was long on early stuff (weaker shift rails) and shorter length on later stuff (stronger shift rails).

    Now, the shift rails are numerous variations. IF the shift selector is different length, you will need to use the matching rails to the selector -- BUT, there is a catch.... The 2g 3-hole 3rd/4th shift fork is different than the 1990-1992.5 2-hole 3rd/4th shift fork; which also has a different roll pin orientation and the shift forks are not interchangeable on the 1989-1991.5 (weak rail ends 2-hole shift fork) and 1991.6-1992.5 (strong rail ends 2-hole shift fork) vs. the 1992.6-1997 (strong rail ends 3-hole shift fork and 5th/rev shift fork pin orientation faces into gear) and 1997-1999 (strong rail ends 3-hole shift fork and 5th/rev shift fork pin orientation faces away from gear). So, if the built 1G transmission has the same shift selector length as the 2g transmission, then you can swap over the 1/2 and 3/4 shift rails, but you will need to confirm orientation of the 5th/reverse shift fork roll pin location before you just swap over the 5th/rev rail as you will need to use the matching shift fork otherwise.

    The shift lever assembly on the outside of the transmission, you will need to continue using the 2g style "L" shift cable bracket that bolts onto the transmission, and the "L" style shift lever that goes in to the transmission that actuates the shift selector internally. There are numerous lever variations, and you NEED to use the matching "L" style levers on a 2g DSM with the matching shift cable bracket.

    Internally, you will need to use the 2G DSM final drive, as it is supposed to be a W5M33-2-MUZT transmission which has a 57-tooth final drive ring gear and matching pinion gear shaft (they are a matched set). You will not be able to use the 1G front diff ring gear and output pinion shaft unless you do 2 things which are change your speed sensor to a 95-96 style (to get your cars speedo correct) and the transfer case final drive is 1.090 on 1991-1996.5 vehicles and the 97-99 are 1.074 ratio -- you would have to change tcases to match the final drive if you are using the 1G DSM 58-tooth ring and pinion gearset in your trans.

    The gearset will need to be swapped over as a matched set of input shaft, intermediate shaft and center differential assemblies -- the gear tooth profiles need to match up. You will need to use the matching shift fork and shift rail for 3rd/4th to the swapped gearset (again, referring to above, you will need to confirm the shift selector length and shift rail end dimensions -- early style will not work, you will need to purchase the correct shift fork then for a 1991.6-1992.5 or an Evo 3 3rd/4th shift rail and grind it down to fit). The 5th gearset again needs to use matching gears, hub and slider assembly (2 variations -- small and large synchro diameter), and shift fork (4 variations; but the big thing is if the 1g has an early gearset it will have an aluminum shift fork and the rail will be an early style with the roll pin facing the gear for the 5/R fork; vs. the later 1991.5-1999 style gearsets use the large diameter hub and slider and steel 5/R fork); making sure that again, you confirm the orientation of the roll pin vs. the shift rail used and use a matched set.

    The 5th gear cover needs to match the gearset. The 5th gear covers again have 2 variations, one that only fits a small diameter hub and slider assembly, and one that only fits a large diameter hub and slider assembly. You need to use the matching cover. AS WELL, the black case plastic oil guide....You CAN use either the 2g oil guide or the 1g oil guide (only if it is a 1991.5-1992.5 with the later version 5th gearset and cover -- the 1990 oil guide does not work with the later year 5th gear covers) in your 2g transmission case.

    The output shaft and needle bearing, you should be using a 23-spline output shaft. I would suspect that the TRE transmission does not have a 22-spline output shaft installed, but you can tell the spline count by counting, or by simply seeing the spline cut profile at the portion that is exposed to the transfer case. The 23-spline and 22-spline have a different profile on how they are cut as a quick reference.

    You will need to swap over the bearing races to match the bearings used, then you will need to check the bearing preload / endplay values before swapping in shims. You will use 0.062" solder for the input shaft, intermediate shaft and front differential and 3/32" solder for the center differential and output pinion shaft (without the shims in place -- use the solder in place of the shims for this testing to get the zero value to determine bearing preload and end play values to select the proper shim).

    Well, i think that this should help you through most of it. Be sure that this shop you are dealing with are not f***ing retards because there are plenty of places that can't handle this. I know this stuff with my eyes closed.

    Good luck,

    Tim Zimmer
    TMZ Performance
    tmzperformance@gmail.com
     

    Drag Race Build 7K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  5. Baymax

    Baymax Probationary Member

    11
    0
    Joined Jul 26, 2018
    Taylorsville, Kentucky
    Thanks Tim,

    In this situation it looks like my two options are sell the trans and buy a different one, or fabricate mounts and swap the transfer case back and some other bits to make it fit. My knowledge of transmission rebuild is little to none so I don’t feel comfortable getting into it.

    I’ll have to send you a PM about pricing for my application to see what will be my best course of action.

    Thanks,
    Nick
     

    Autocross Build 536  2

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    331 whp · 300 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  6. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

    3,242
    660
    Joined Mar 12, 2004
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    You cannot swap the transmission on if you are a 7 bolt engine. You need to physically swap the internals.
     

    Drag Race Build 7K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  7. Baymax

    Baymax Probationary Member

    11
    0
    Joined Jul 26, 2018
    Taylorsville, Kentucky
    It’s a 6 bolt swap.

     

    Autocross Build 536  2

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    331 whp · 300 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  8. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

    3,242
    660
    Joined Mar 12, 2004
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    You will be wasting more time making the 1g transmission fit into the 2g chassis even with a 6 bolt swap, than the simple time to tear down both transmissions and do the internal swaps.
     

    Drag Race Build 7K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  9. Baymax

    Baymax Probationary Member

    11
    0
    Joined Jul 26, 2018
    Taylorsville, Kentucky
    Seriously!? The book you sent me made me think otherwise LOL
     

    Autocross Build 536  2

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    331 whp · 300 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  10. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,595
    2,024
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    When you make a living doing this type of thing, that was just a paragraph. ROFL
    Thank you Tim!
     

    Street Build 3K  27

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    550  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    453  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 656  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  11. FireyIce01

    FireyIce01 Proven Member

    386
    17
    Joined Mar 17, 2004
    Rancho Cordova, California
    I will have to go back and read the comments, but I just wanted to throw out there, I had a '90s Galant VR4 transmission and transplanted it into a '95 GSX tranny case - because of the design of the VR4 trans, part of the housing from the vr4 had to be used with part of the housing from the GSX, but all the internals fit - I'd never torn a trans apart before, but with the blowapart diagrams for the 1G and 2G, I was able to get it all together, and ran it for a year or so before I blew some rings and mothballed the car. So, while technically possible, it's not just a quick swap, and you will be rebuilding the entire transmission. That's why I called that car Frankenclipse, it had parts from everywhere :D

    Edit:

    From Tim's comments, I just got really damn lucky everything worked :D basically everything INSIDE my transmission came out of the VR4 (and the center diff is from the VR4, the main point being to be able to disengage the rear wheel drive) and everything on the outside was mix and matched to fit (mostly the 2g stuff, except for a couple pieces of the VR4 case, such as the cover that has the pin sticking out of it to disengage the center diff)
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019

    19  1

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    47  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  12. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

    5,152
    1,014
    Joined Nov 19, 2011
    oklahoma city, Oklahoma
    Tim said it better than I did. I could do it with it in front of me but I couldnt write it down. Its specific but I wouldn't call it all that difficult. If all you broke was the center diff why dont you just fix/swap that?
     

    Street Build 3K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    mitsubishikid likes this.
  13. mitsubishikid

    mitsubishikid Proven Member

    825
    176
    Joined Jun 8, 2009
    Turlock, California
    ^^^ This is a good question how do we even know it is a center diff issue... I don't recall the op mentioning that he tore the blown transmission down, swapping a center diff in 1 transmission is a little easier then tearing 2 transmissions down to make 1, the op should start with disassembling the blown unit first, you never know the 2g case could have been broken in the aftermath best to look at what failed first.
     

    996  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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