1G 16g auto w/ecmlink will not build boost to launch???!!!HELP

[8urzr1]

Like it says I have a 91 auto awd mods/ 255,denso660 injectors/ecmlink v3/ 16g mhi/3in drag pipe/ stock bottomend/stock head other than kelford 272s/still running stock 1g maf/ stock smic... boost is set around 18psi no matter what I do I cannot get the car to build boost to launch effectively... 2.8 60fts aren't gonna cut it...any advice would be great! I believe it may be in the tune but im not sure,the car pulls great and runs great other than not being able to build boost offline... thanx fellas if I need to post some logs in order to help I will do so!

 

[8urzr1]

75 views and not 1 person has any input or advice??

 

[SonySlave]

Stock 7.8:1 compression engine that's probably tired. Stock converter. Big cams. Bigger turbo. Restricted intake pipe. Inefficient stock intercooler and piping. All of these things are counting against you when trying to stall up on the converter. Now, you should be able to get up on the converter eventually, but even a turbo as small as a 16G can making stalling up annoying with a stock converter and tired 7.8:1 engine. The big Kelford 272 cams are only moving your power and torque curve to the right into higher RPMs which isn't good because you need that torque way down low. Adding a bunch of timing in the low RPM stall up areas can help get the turbo going. Your setup is just not very efficient, so you're going to have to see what works.

 

[8urzr1]

Thanks man! appreciate it everyone was telling me to pull timing. Engine is stock but fresh top and bottom great comp across the board. Ive since this post done a fmic and plumbing and were installing sd right now as I type this.. Buut yea stock converter.. So you say more timing down low??

 

[bmxfelon420]

If it's link, you can set the launch control at your stall speed and/or set up antilag. I'm not real versed on antilag, but I know even with an auto the two step can help you get some more boost.

 

[donniekak]

Those cams are not going to play nice with stock springs, they also are going to keep you from stalling a stock converter with that turbo.

 

[bmxfelon420]

Those cams are not going to play nice with stock springs, they also are going to keep you from stalling a stock converter with that turbo.

I didnt even see that they were stock springs, yeah honestly I wouldnt recommend running stock springs with any cam upgrade really. Why take all of that apart and not upgrade the springs/retainers and the lifters. Hell, if I could have found a source for Evo rockers that wasnt 16 bucks a piece I would have swapped those too. That's easy enough to do afterwards though I guess.

 

[8urzr1]

it has 3g revised lifters.. stock springs retainers ect.. Im not trying to make big numbers or break records. Im new to the auto life. Just a fun street strip car that I can still dd Ive always ran 5 speeds.Untill I came across this car that I couldn't pass up. It was blown up(timing belt) so I just redone the entire engine.The car was a 1 owner old lady... 70k miles im the second owner. very clean inside and out.. black/grey stock 2 tone grey interior. I paid 300 for it... Stock rods/pistons/rings has acl bearings and arp rod bolts, balance shaft delete that's it on bottom... The head is redone 3 angle job port polish intake and exhaust, kelford 272/272, 3g revised lifters, stock head bolts torqed to 120ftlbs,cometic hg, aem cam gears,kevlar t belt, no a/c no p/s alternator relocation, auto w/road surge shiftbox, translab shiftkit,welded center diff done by j shep. ecmlink v3 w/ sd setup,denso 660s walbro 255 afpr,aem wb02... fp log mani,mhi 16g, short route fmic setup,stock bov... I think that covers it...

 

[donniekak]

Stock springs do not provide the recommended pressure for those cams.

 

[bmxfelon420]

Its not to break records, if you see a video of valve springs at 7k you'll see why. Afternarket cams are designed to work under certain specs. If the spring pressure isn't right you could damage valves, seats, rockers, even break springs or retainers. If the spring isn't designed to compress that much bad stuff can happen. For 300 bucks you might as well replace them. My. 02

 

[donniekak]

Throwing the stock cams back in will be the easiest, cheapest way to get up on a stock converter. There is not even a guarantee that will work, as some converters are tighter than others.

 

[8urzr1]

Ive ran 280s on stock springs and retainers.. Have buddies that do now with 200k plus mile engines and see the road everyday. from my research it is recommended that springs be replaced with the 272s but is not required... My engine makes good power other than trying to get on the converter. It traps consistanly in the 115mph to 112mph range with 2.9 60fts on 93octane and a very conservative tune... now only if I could pull 1.5 60fts

 

[donniekak]

What 280's are you running? Ramp rate, and total lift are the main issues, not advertised duration.

 

[8urzr1]

Im running kelford 272s not 280s!!

 

[91_talon_tsi_awd]

Agree with changing your springs. I think if you don't have all the supporting mods to run what you have stock effienciently then its kinda pointless to add a bigger turbo. And attempt to have it run any better. Just my experience.
Had a 2012 genesis coupe 2.0t. I built up and currently fixing the mess of a 20g build on my tsi awd.
Good luck with the car and if u have a bov(atmospherical) scrap it. Recirculation is best.

 

[bmxfelon420]

if u have a bov(atmospherical) scrap it. Recirculation is best.

Unless you have a blow through MAF in which case the BOV would be in front of the maf and this wouldnt be an issue. Or if you were running speed density.

 

[donniekak]

Im running kelford 272s not 280s!!

Those kelford 272's have floated on mildly upgraded springs.

The main point is you are not going to stall a stock converter with those cams. Taking them out, and using the stock cams will help a lot with getting on the converter.

I'd rather have a faster car, than be able to say I have xyz parts on it.

 

[bastarddsm]

This dude doesn't want to listen at all. Let me lay it out bluntly. RUNNING THOSE CAMS ON THOSE SPRINGS WILL DESTROY YOUR MOTOR AND POSSIBLY CAUSE YOU TO TOTAL YOUR CAR AND DIE. It will drop a valve, and that can put oil and water on the ground. Guess what happens then?

but hey were not the ones coming on here asking for advise.

 

[thomcasey]

How are you brake boosting? Do you have a 2-step setup? Once you take all the mentioned above steps to make sure your motor is healthy and safe, you need to practice brake boosting. Should be easy to build 10-15lbs at the line

 

[bmxfelon420]

How are you brake boosting? Do you have a 2-step setup? Once you take all the mentioned above steps to make sure your motor is healthy and safe, you need to practice brake boosting. Should be easy to build 10-15lbs at the line

In regards to that, how do you set it in relation to stall speed? Do you set it for right at stall? I know due to different setups it's impossible to say "set it at x RPM" because stall speed changes with the torque applied. Thats especially pertinent in my case as WAY more torque is being applied.

Also OP if it's any indication of what you should aim for, I have stock cams with Crower springs and retainers and 3g lifters. The more robust you can make anything the better the car will run.

 

[donniekak]

A two step does no good, when you can't build boost because the converter is to tight, and the cams are to large.

A 3500 rpm two step is useless when you can't get over 2200 rpms.

 

[thomcasey]

Friend with a Summit AWD Auto wagon can build 19psi @ launch just brake boosting. He uses a VW/Audi vacuum pump in place of the booster when at the track

 

[8urzr1]

If the cams will destroy the engine why hasn't it done so yet? This isn't something that ive just recently done to the car. The cams have been in it for 2yrs plus with no issues. I understand that it may not be getting on the stock converter due to the cams now. If that's the issue ill throw a different converter at it. I appreciate your advice on the cams,springs but they have been working great and continue to with no issues... it will get an upgraded valvetrain this winter when I pull it apart for a freshen up. thanks all of you for the advice!!

 

[Cox Abele]

This is coming from someone with a similar setup- I'm running the stock auto with a stock converter that is fairly tight at 2,100 rpm. 1g TB, EvoIII intake, Comp 272s, Billet 20g-TD06SL2, full exhaust and supporting mods.

My car does the same thing. I've tried a bunch of different launch settings from low to high timing, lean to fat mixture- nothing seemed to help. Of course, every converter is a little different. Mine is really tight! You can try adding timing to see if it gives you enough torque to spool, but it comes down to the following: Regardless of cam setup, torque is what allows you to over run the converter and get into the RPM range to begin to compound boost.

To build boost on this setup you'll likely need one of the following:

A.) A re-stalled converter
B.) Displacement
C.) Nitrous (a 50 shot seems to work for most)

Each has their advantages and disadvantages, but at least my answer had some honest approach to your initial question. Seriously "Stock springs do not provide the recommended pressure for those cams." chosen as the best answer?! Regardless of the spring selection, what does that have to do with the actual question?! While your our cam selection is not optimal, stock springs or (or aftermarket for that matter) won't help you build boost on the foot brake.

 

[bmxfelon420]

You have to be careful with applying more torque to the converter. The harder you push it, the more heat you're going to generate. Make sure if you're stressing it harder that you have enough cooling to handle all the heat.