14b help, do's and don't's

[DSM-Hottie]

So I blew up my 2nd T-2small so I'm upgrading to a 14b

How much boost are they good for? WTF

Feed from the head or oil filter housing? WTF

450cc injectors big enough?

Just some over all info on 14b's would be great, don't know much about them.

 

[rush2252]

Don't bet on it. I have been having this issue forever, in fact, i am due for another replacement.

I remember on here recommened jb welding 2 gaskets together. I figure it would be worth a try, since I have tried several brands of gaskets and still no luck.

Try using copper spray a gasket between the two. Jb weld will not hold up to the exhaust temps. The copper spray a gasket by permatex works wonders!



Kolby

 

[romeen]

Ana, specifically what do you mean about the DP not matching up? What part of the gasket is the gasket failing?

 

[rush2252]

some of the off brand DP and even the better made ones have a larger flange i.e 3' that doesnt line up well on the stocker o2 housing. They burn out easily. The only way Ive seen it fixed is some modifications to the o2 housing flange or DP

 

[DSM-Hottie]

The down pipe was made for my friends GSX that was running a different turbo set up then I am. So it's not a direct match up.

 

[snakeyes711]

If you can't find a banjo bolt. You could do what I did. I've broken two of them, and it set me back an hour or so on the repair. Finding them is almost impossible around here. What I did was buy a box of bolts from auto zone, and drill them out on a drill press. Works fine, and they are cheap. Only take a few minutes to do even with a hand held drill. Just keep the hole under a 1/4 inch bit, and it'll be fine. I've replaced them both times the turbo's been off, and its never leaked from that bolt.

Now if I could just get the feed bolt on top of the turbo not to leak. !@

 

[spawn87]

I would recommend using the Mitsubishi factory oil feed line (from the head) because it has an oil restrictor built into it. This gives the turbo the exact amount of oil that it was designed for. This is how I am feeding my EVO3 16G.

PM sent.

not trying to start nothing but if you have an e3bg dont you think the restrictor is to small?
seen how its design for the stock turbo.

and in any case feeding from the head is better than the OH theres like 40-30psi less pressure i have mine feed from the OH at eh moment because it came with the kit and i ran out of mula.

 

[JusMX141]

...and what center housing does the Evo III 16G use? That's correct...the same one as a stock 14B turbo.

What makes you think an Evo III 16G would require more oil?

 

[DSMunknown]

14B@20+PSI with Evo 8 MAS & Evo 8 injectors (560cc) and no tuning whatsoever = fun for me

 

[DSM-Hottie]

Help me! What bolt do I need to hook the feed line up to the head!?! I'm going to the dealer and need to know asap!

 

[JusMX141]

MF650102 = 10mm Banjo Bolt For Head

and two 10mm copper crush washers.

 

[ed_dogg23]

14b do's and dont's? Id like to add my 2 cents. I recently broke the g60 again and decided to install a 14b for the time being untill I can save the money to get the G60 fixed. Again. Thats right, the second time in 2 weeks. Anyway, The first 14b I installed I welded the flapper shut with an e316g hotside installed. Well it actually hit 30psi twice. On the second time the compressor wheel nut backed off and suck the exhaust wheel, shaft, and bearing through the exhaust. Well not totally through the exhaust because it was all in the cat. So I found another 14b in the shed and put the car back together. After I tuned the car on the way to the track on Sunday, I ended with a 13.90 @ 98 mph. Obviously not my fastest time but, the car weighed 3450. And please understand if you can that this is at elevation. (Bandimere)

The 14b is an ok turbo in my opinion. For its size.......... very impressed!

Thanks 5280tuning.com

 

[tkelly27]

The knecht's in gresham has banjo bolts, I assume they will have them at other locations. You only need two washers, one for the top, one for the bottom.

 

[rush2252]

I just gave you the look! Sucked into the cat! Wow! That must have been one hell of a noise! It hopefully will be a nice improvement from the t2small! I ordered that bolt today! Romeen I need your feed line and banjo's as well! I possibly will be in the Vancouver area tomorrow! Pm sent! The one banjo has 3 washers on it...thought it only needed two?

YOU already have the feed line. Send me a pic and ill MS paint it for you


you need 2 crush washers per every banjo bolt used. A total 8 depending on if your running coolant lines or not.

*gives swift kick in the rump for driving to vancouver and wasting gas

 

[Blurred Talon]

So you guys are saying the best place for the oil feed on a 2G is the head? Plus use the factory feed line?

 

[DSM-Hottie]

Yes. For a 14b, feed from the head. Yes factory line.

 

[gettingwop]

This thread is funny. I never heard of a 14b and our stock fuel systems only working at 14-15psi safely. Let me shed some light on this topic for everyone.

The 14b can be run over 20 PSI. It is less effecient so over 20 PSI it will not be like 21-22 psi on a big 16g even. With that being said, 450cc injectors can be run at close to 95-100% duty cycle and flow plenty of fuel to cover 20PSI. This is dependent on a rewired, or rewired and upgraded fuel lines.

Everyone is quick to jump to conclussions about the stock injectors, or the stock 14b. However the injectors aren't holding you back with a 14b. Infact this turbo/injector setup was set up at a little over 200hp but can support over 300hp. If you are going to reach for 400-500 awhp then you need to upgrade the fuel system *and other things. If you'd be happy at 300-310 awhp you can make that on stock injectors, and a 14b.

My suggestions to the OP are:

Rewire your fuel pump
Bolt your 14b up the way a 1g is run, plug the oil filter outlet which went to the t-25.
Use a stock 1g outlet from the turbo, cut it, and angle it however you have to, weld the new angles.
Get a 1g lower radiator hose from a junkyard(it'll make installing the 14b a little easier)
(If you have an AFPR turn the pressure up to around 45-48 on the track days or high boost runs) That will give you plenty of fuel to run higher boost safely
If you turn the boost back down, turn the fuel pressure down.
If your running high boost always run 92-93 octane if you don't have race fuel where your located.
You could also pick up a real fuel additive with TEL I can't think off the top of my head what some companies are. They are out there though, and this is a serious fuel additive which will add lots of octane points to the fuel your using. (at the cost of your cat/o2 sensors)



Road Race Engineering's Eclipse Fuel Delivery Upgrades
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Fuel/boost guideline..JUST A GUIDELINE

DSMTimes.org - Home
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Some time slips of 14b DSMs...Best time no juice ran an 11.5 @ 118 pretty good for a stock turbo.

Also I have a friend who reached 286awhp with his 450's on 100 octane fuel...He's either on here or DSMtalk as "DRW" Talk to him about pressing the limits of stock parts haha.

Good luck with your 14b!

 

[JayRolla]

Not to mention you can pump fuel pressure up and get those injectors to flow around 550cc's.

 

[romeen]

Thanks! We dropped the t2small out already....just waiting to get a snapped off stud out. Coming along great! I'll post pics later.... any more tips would be great!

Use some high temp anti-seize (copper or nickel based) on the turbo bolts. Don't forget to use 2 "cone" washers per bolt stacked in the proper orientation.

 

[gettingwop]

Thanks! We dropped the t2small out already....just waiting to get a snapped off stud out. Coming along great! I'll post pics later.... any more tips would be great!

Ahh exhaust manifold removal is always a blast! Get the 5/16th extractor bit and it should come out with ease. If some of the stud is sticking out you might be able to grab it with some vice grips. I replaced all of the studs with bolts it makes taking the manifold on/off much easier.

Someone here mentioned the 450's with the pressure up around 47-50 will flow like 550's and that is true. If you put 550's on with out tuning they would act like 450's anyhow. Our stock fuel pumps with a rewire, and some major restrictions removed from the fittings on the way to the fuel rail can out flow a 190lph pump BTW.

 

[rush2252]

heres a quick Crude MS PAINT of how you need to notch the holes to make the T25 return work

 

[95redturboawd]

That's the oil line she's talking about the water line. It's simple really you just bend the lines on the 14b. On my swap the one line fit without modification but I had to get a longer piece of radiator hose to make the other one fit.

 

[rush2252]

That's the oil line she's talking about the water line. It's simple really you just bend the lines on the 14b. On my swap the one line fit without modification but I had to get a longer piece of radiator hose to make the other one fit.

Or you just reuse the T25 they are already bent etc.. she text me and was having issues with the OIL return as well

 

[DSM-Hottie]

14b swap was a lot of labor...a lot of problems but it's all done! 3days later I'm running 15-17psi. Works great...seems like there is more boost lag. But I like it. Thanks for all of your help!

 

[gettingwop]

You thought it was a lot of labor? I didn't think it was all that bad. Taking a rear out of a 1g is a lot of work..haha Either way it's good to see a girl getting her hands under the hood.

The 14b is a great turbo, you'll forget about the tiny lag your experiencing from the change from t-25. The 14b/16gs are GREAT turbos, compared to larger turbos that people use the 14b has no lag.

 

[rush2252]

14b swap was a lot of labor...a lot of problems but it's all done! 3days later I'm running 15-17psi. Works great...seems like there is more boost lag. But I like it. Thanks for all of your help!

You think its noticealbe? I havent noticed it much on the small 16g. I guess the t25 got to cruising speeds. My sis drove it and was like man it just toook off all of a sudden. I guess im just used to it