14B and see noticable gains w out a tune?

[rush2252]

95 Talon awd TSI auto EPROM ecu 1g BOV and 1g TB

I found my boost leak today and noticed that my runners on the turbo manifold are cracked as well.

Heres the question. I am currently running the t25 w factory SMIC. I priced an OEM manifold through Oreillys for $112.00 Dorman part # 674-265 and I found a 14B for $100.00 w no shaft play. So I was thinking for around $250.00 this seems like the best rout. I should be able to put on the new mani and 14B and see noticable gains w out a tune. ( I just discovered I have EPROM ) Ive read some of the details on the 14B vs other available units on the market.

Long term goals: I want to run no more than 18psi and its going to be a daily driver. The motor is in great shape as well as the tranny. Is this $250.00 investment going to be something I can have fun with for awhile and will I be able to feel it on the old "buttseat Dyno"

I already know i will have to change intercooler piping when I go from the t25 to the 14B

 

[MrBoxx]

Yeah, you should notice a difference. The 14b is such an underrated turbo. I loved running mine at 16psi and feeling the kick in the pants when it hit full spool.

For another hundred fifty bucks or so, you could get the FP race mani, though. It'd give you a bit more performance, a little bit more flash, and get the car ready for a larger turbo down the road.

 

[Imback]

Why not try finding a used manifold for 50 bucks or so.

 

[rush2252]

from what I can tell I shouldnt see any problems with fuel cut etc with just adding the 14b correct? I havent done the FP rewire and I dont have an adjustable FPR. On a better note I do have a data logger that I could run some comparisons on w the T25 still on.

Why not try finding a used manifold for 50 bucks or so.

Because the Dorman one is designed more like the EVO stock mani. it has a sturdier design and for $112.00 it comes w new gaskets and hardware. I found a few at local salvage but most are rusted and cracked as well.

Heres the link to the same part just online for 99.95 it also carries lifetime warranty
Dorman 674-265 - Dorman Exhaust Manifolds

 

[the_mork]

You can also probably find a used manifold in the classifieds section for a better price than a new one.

I would guess that this goes without saying but you will need to make sure that you have an aftermarket boost gauge to verify that you are indeed running at safe levels. You wont see a huge difference going from a t25 to a 14b without upping the boost a bit past stock but there will be a difference.

Also depending on how bad the cracks in your current manifold are you may be able to take it down to a machine shop and have them repair it. I took mine down to a local shop and they used some twist in plugs to fill the holes and a grinder to clean it up and make it look decent. Instead of a new manifold I spent $30 for porting and repair.

Besides the intercooler piping you will also need to pick up a file (a chainsaw sharpening file worked for me) in order to oval the holes in your oil return tube to fit the 14b. You may also need a new oil feed line but I do not remember for sure, undoubtedly your old one will be hard to remove intact and new ones are fairly inexpensive.

 

[the_mork]

from what I can tell I shouldnt see any problems with fuel cut etc with just adding the 14b correct? I havent done the FP rewire and I dont have an adjustable FPR. On a better note I do have a data logger that I could run some comparisons on w the T25 still on.

If you are looking for a bit of a budget build look into an evo9 fuel pump, you can usually purchase them for $40 and they are comparable to a Warlboro 190. The evo8 pumps are also potent but have a relief valve that makes them useless past about 20psi. You might think that you'll never reach the point but for the minimal price difference it is probably worth it to go with the 9 pump. Neither pump requires a FPR

You shouldn't see fuel cut just by switching to the 14b assuming you don't have any significant boost leaks as long as you keep the boost down near stock levels. Use your datalogger but generally you should be safe at around 14-15psi.

I certainly wouldn't discourage you from datalogging your car but I'm not sure that having a log from each turbo would be useful unless you just want to see the gains in which case go for it. I kind of wish I had a log from when my car was stock because it would be kind of fun to see the difference.

The evo manifold doesn't flow any better than the 2g one except for the opening at the collector which can be ported by any machine shop or by anyone who is willing to buy $30 in tools and spend a couple of hours.

 

[rush2252]

You can also probably find a used manifold in the classifieds section for a better price than a new one.

I would guess that this goes without saying but you will need to make sure that you have an aftermarket boost gauge to verify that you are indeed running at safe levels. You wont see a huge difference going from a t25 to a 14b without upping the boost a bit past stock but there will be a difference.

Also depending on how bad the cracks in your current manifold are you may be able to take it down to a machine shop and have them repair it. I took mine down to a local shop and they used some twist in plugs to fill the holes and a grinder to clean it up and make it look decent. Instead of a new manifold I spent $30 for porting and repair.

Besides the intercooler piping you will also need to pick up a file (a chainsaw sharpening file worked for me) in order to oval the holes in your oil return tube to fit the 14b. You may also need a new oil feed line but I do not remember for sure, undoubtedly your old one will be hard to remove intact and new ones are fairly inexpensive.

Thanks for the input guys. I run a boost check everytime I do maintenance to the car w a manual gauge. I havent installed one yet because im undecided on hacking up the Apillar etc. At the moment im running the crushed 1g BOV @ 16lbs on the T25 so I do have the ability to monitor boost. I also have a MBC but I need to refab it

 

[gofer]

whats "cracked" on the exhaust mani actually mean? its common for small cracks on the inside around the edges of the collector, these are just from the heat though and the manifold still works fine. if you have a CRACK then id save the trouble of fixing it and the money of buying a new one and find a used good 2g manifold for $30. PM me, ive got one sitting around somewhere... i got one for a case of beer ported once, you can find them all over.

if you go the 14b route your going to have to get a J pipe because the stock piping wont work... and a new oil return line as well. if you go the used cheap exhaust mani route and get the good 14b and the "hacker tweaker" install kit from RRE then your looking at $250 that you can have fun with. if you get the new exhaust mani and the 14b, your still going to be spending another $150 on install parts for the 14b... just something to think about.

 

[rush2252]

I certainly wouldn't discourage you from datalogging your car but I'm not sure that having a log from each turbo would be useful unless you just want to see the gains in which case go for it.

I was referring more towards using it to monitor fuel trim from the 14B vs. T25 trims

 

[the_mork]

I don't like any of the common solutions for gauges so for the moment my boost gauge comes through the firewall at the steering column then runs under my floormat and comes up under the drivers seat. If you have any ambition it could run under the carpet because there is already a slit in the carpeting under the drivers seat. It isn't a gauge I see all the time but it is convenient to look at it any time the car is acting weird and will be especially important to keep around after switching turbos while you feel out any issues the car might have. I ripped my vacuum hose that went to the wastegate twice and would have overboosted for days before catching it if I didn't have the gauge in the car and handy.

 

[the_mork]

I was referring more towards using it to monitor fuel trim from the 14B vs. T25 trims

Your fuel trims wont change one bit assuming you don't introduce any boost leaks and all of your exhaust seals up well. The only things to worry about are running out of injector or knocking so depending on your logger you will need to log injector pulse width + injector duty cycle and knock sum or timing advance if your logger can't read knock sum. Either way having your old logs to compare to wont be of significant help.

 

[rush2252]

whats "cracked" on the exhaust mani actually mean? its common for small cracks on the inside around the edges of the collector, these are just from the heat though and the manifold still works fine. if you have a CRACK then id save the trouble of fixing it and the money of buying a new one and find a used good 2g manifold for $30. PM me, ive got one sitting around somewhere... i got one for a case of beer ported once, you can find them all over.

if you go the 14b route your going to have to get a J pipe because the stock piping wont work... and a new oil return line as well. if you go the used cheap exhaust mani route and get the good 14b and the "hacker tweaker" install kit from RRE then your looking at $250 that you can have fun with. if you get the new exhaust mani and the 14b, your still going to be spending another $150 on install parts for the 14b... just something to think about.

I have the luxury of a shop and a father whose a killer fabricator. I can have a j pipe made for the time being. and the oil feed line isnt an issue at the moment. The cracks I was referring to are 80% the diameter of 2 runners. And its already a 2g

 

[dylnwit]

I know it's somewhat off topic, but you could pick up one of those air vent gauge bezels, that would be the better way to go, seems to be a lot easier to switch it back if you ever wanted to. The Dorman unit is a nice one (it's what I have for now), but the FP seems to be the way to go. Use plenty of pb blaster or similar to reduce the risk of breaking the exhaust manifold studs. Broke 2 of those when I took my old one off, but I didn't help it besides wd-40 the day before.

 

[evileclipse909]

Just get a used manifold. They're cheap and almost everyone has an extra one. I do. As for the turbo a 14b is a great 1'st step. But you will need a different feed and return line. You will also need to make sure you plug the stock feed line at the oil filter housing and run your new line off the side of the head so you dont blow your new turbo.

 

[rush2252]

another question does anybody know what type of turbo the 06-07 mazda speed 3s run? I have one w like 2k on it laying around. Got it from a mazda dealer. It was replaced for leaky seals because a customer kept complaining of it smoking. This was replaced and didnt fix the problem. so i got free turbo

 

[rush2252]

Just get a used manifold. They're cheap and almost everyone has an extra one. I do. As for the turbo a 14b is a great 1'st step. But you will need a different feed and return line. You will also need to make sure you plug the stock feed line at the oil filter housing and run your new line off the side of the head so you dont blow your new turbo.

The t25s can be fed from the filter housing but not the 14bs? I do see the allen head that you run from on the head if this is the case. Is it do to the fact that ones is a BB and one isnt?

 

[bluegs03]

Apparently they run a Borg-Warner K04 turbo? Thats what im getting from this website. heres the link(Mazda) Borg-Warner K04 Turbo Teardown

another question does anybody know what type of turbo the 06-07 mazda speed 3s run? I have one w like 2k on it laying around. Got it from a mazda dealer. It was replaced for leaky seals because a customer kept complaining of it smoking. This was replaced and didnt fix the problem. so i got free turbo

 

[the_mork]

The t25s can be fed from the filter housing but not the 14bs? I do see the allen head that you run from on the head if this is the case. Is it do to the fact that ones is a BB and one isnt?

You can run a 14b from the oil filter. No the 14b isn't BB.

As for the mazda turbo, I know nothing about it but I will almost guarantee that it is not worth the trouble. You would need either a new turbine housing (probably doesn't exist with mhi flange) or a new exhaust manifold that matches that turbo's flange which exists if it is a standard style but can be quite expensive. After that you need to handle intercooler piping and oil provisions. Water provisions should be easy with enough hose. Finally you will have to make a custom downpipe to match the o2 housing that it uses.

All of that is even if the turbo is an upgrade to the t25 which it very well might not be.


Edit: The intercooler piping probably wouldn't be terrible to do with that outlet but the turbo doesn't look like it is terribly large. Looks can be deceiving but I would bet that a 14b would outflow it. There isn't any scale in the pictures to know for sure though. If you were going for a budget turbo off of another vehicle then Holset is the way to go.

 

[rush2252]

OH i didnt mention i wasnt gonig to use the mazda turbo on the DSM we have an extra family car 95MX3 we thought about boosting

 

[the_mork]

Ahh, then google is your friend to see if this is a good candidate. For an NA car to go turbo you usually want a small turbocharger so that it spools extremely quickly. You can't go high boost without damaging the engine internals so you want to make the powerband very wide by using a turbo that just barely outflows the motor at high rpms and low boost.

I'm not all that familiar with the mx3 but the one my friend used to have had a v6, what motor is in yours?

 

[rush2252]

Ahh, then google is your friend to see if this is a good candidate. For an NA car to go turbo you usually want a small turbocharger so that it spools extremely quickly. You can't go high boost without damaging the engine internals so you want to make the powerband very wide by using a turbo that just barely outflows the motor at high rpms and low boost.

I'm not all that familiar with the mx3 but the one my friend used to have had a v6, what motor is in yours?

its had the 1.6L I used to own a Kia sephia with the t8d 1.8L I know that the cams are a direct swap and they are a huge improvement. As far as boosting it would be small amounts. Its just a bummer to have this basically new turbo laying around the shop