10psi log(tuning issues) wisemen!! Anyone!

[dsmsucks]

Hey guys I went out yesterday for the first time a logged at 10psi. This is what happened
rpm knck tima
2406 0 37
3125 0 27
3656 0 24
4312 0 24
4656 0 23
5031 0 22
5656 0 25
6312 0 27
Okay this log was in the 2nd gear!! Knock was at 8-10 between 4and 6rpm but I added fuel
Issues
1. My ftml is super low. (81.2) If I go to -23 on the safc it starts to climb When I do the car doesnt run right. But when I go +10 it idles good! The car jerks when I first put my foot on the gas then it drives good? I was leaning towards fuel pressure over run or bad coil. It isnt the ecu or spark plugs. I changed the spark plugs yesterday and the car still jerks. I o2 sensor is cycling so I know its good! Any input

2. Whats going on with my timing. Why doesnt it just read steady till red line
thanks
Rep Points

 

[power=dsm]

I'm no expert at tuning but let me try and help. Your timing is suppose to clime till red line. If it doesn't , that’s because of knock and the car starts to pull timing.

Your 02 sensor isn't very good to tune with, or shouldn't be used to tune with since it isn't a wide band. You mentioned when you added fuel, the car started to bog, which would means your too rich.

I would check for boost leaks, Then re-log and start pulling fuel. Pull the fuel till the car starts to knock, then just add some back in.

 

[dsmsucks]

I'm no expert at tuning but let me try and help. Your timing is suppose to clime till red line. If it doesn't , that’s because of knock and the car starts to pull timing.

Your 02 sensor isn't very good to tune with, or shouldn't be used to tune with since it isn't a wide band. You mentioned when you added fuel, the car started to bog, which would means your too rich.

I would check for boost leaks, Then re-log and start pulling fuel. Pull the fuel till the car starts to knock, then just add some back in.

Thanks for the help. So what are you saying dont use the o2 sensor. I was only using it to tune fuel trims. I know its right when it reads 81.2 because when I pulled the old plugs out yesterday, they were black as shit . Oh and I was saying. When I leave the setting at zero the car idle funny and shakes. logger readys 81.2. I have to go -24 on the safc to get the ftml close to 100. When I do that the car tries to shut off. But when I go +10 on the safc(add fuel) the car runs good. I dont understand this! If the logger reads 81.2 when Im at zero on the safc why do I need to add fuel

 

[andymoraitis]

Technically, you should be logging a 3rd gear pull from 3000 to 6500 or so RPM since the motor will have more load and the gear duration is long enough to get a better idea of what's happening.

You mentioned that you pulled the plugs. What did they look like? Were they blackened or a light tan/white? If you really are rich, the plugs will show it. I think another issue is minor FPR overrun with a re-wired 190. It might be a good idea to hook up a fuel pressure gauge to see what you're getting at idle.

In the meantime, run another log in 3rd gear and get us information on:

RPM
Timing
O2 Trim Bank 1
Knock
IDC
IPW

I think there also may be issues with your AFC settings if you're at -23. To the best of my knowledge, that's too much airflow being removed which may explain why your timing is so high. If I'm not mistaken, correction on 550's should be around -18. Let me clearly state that I don't tune with an AFC and know very little about settings. Hopefully someone with more experience can help you in this regard.

Re-log it and keep us posted,

Andy

Edit: I noticed that you posted as I was writing this. Rich plugs with that much airflow subtraction could be a result of either boost leaks or FPR overrun. Checking fuel pressure will let us know where you are.

 

[KeltonDSMer]

The jerking might be from being way too rich off idle. Put the AFC back to 0% at 1000RPM and re-set the ECU by pulling the negative battery terminal. You want the trim as close to 100% as possible, so your trim rising when you take away fuel is exactly what it should be doing.

The reason timing increases with RPM is because of the time it takes to burn the fuel. As engine speed increases, the spark must happen earlier in the crank rotation in order to have the best burn at TDC. This is the reason pump gas timing maps are less agressive than race gas maps because pump burns so much easier.

 

[dsmsucks]

Technically, you should be logging a 3rd gear pull from 3000 to 6500 or so RPM since the motor will have more load and the gear duration is long enough to get a better idea of what's happening.

You mentioned that you pulled the plugs. What did they look like? Were they blackened or a light tan/white? If you really are rich, the plugs will show it. I think another issue is minor FPR overrun with a re-wired 190. It might be a good idea to hook up a fuel pressure gauge to see what you're getting at idle.

In the meantime, run another log in 3rd gear and get us information on:

RPM
Timing
O2 Trim Bank 1
Knock
IDC
IPW

I think there also may be issues with your AFC settings if you're at -23. To the best of my knowledge, that's too much airflow being removed which may explain why your timing is so high. If I'm not mistaken, correction on 550's should be around -18. Let me clearly state that I don't tune with an AFC and know very little about settings. Hopefully someone with more experience can help you in this regard.

Re-log it and keep us posted,

Andy

Edit: I noticed that you posted as I was writing this. Rich plugs with that much airflow subtraction could be a result of either boost leaks or FPR overrun. Checking fuel pressure will let us know where you are.

Thanks bud, rep points to you both!!! Yeah I dont drive with the settings at -23. I be idling, and -23. Thats when the low fuel trim comes up to 100 but the car is trying to shut off. When I go +10 the car runs good!
Would a auto shop happen to say a fuel pressure gauge?
Thanks
Going to repost log

 

[dsmsucks]

rpm knck tima o2-r idc ipw
2406 0 37 .82v 0.7 .76ms
3125 0 27 .83v 19.5 7.67ms
3656 0 24 .83v 33.5 11.00ms
4312 0 24 .83v 42.9 12.03ms
4656 0 23 .85v 50.0 13.05ms
5031 0 22 .85v 56.2 13.56ms
5656 0 25 .85v 62.5 13.31ms
6312 0 27 .85v 6.2 1.27ms

 

[dsmsucks]

The jerking might be from being way too rich off idle. Put the AFC back to 0% at 1000RPM and re-set the ECU by pulling the negative battery terminal. You want the trim as close to 100% as possible, so your trim rising when you take away fuel is exactly what it should be doing.

The reason timing increases with RPM is because of the time it takes to burn the fuel. As engine speed increases, the spark must happen earlier in the crank rotation in order to have the best burn at TDC. This is the reason pump gas timing maps are less agressive than race gas maps because pump burns so much easier.

okay now why does the jerking stop when I add fuel +10 on the safc then If Im not mistaken it should increase
When I take the fuel away the jerking gets worse!????

 

[power=dsm]

before tuning please do a boost leak test it would make things alot easier for us

 

[dsmsucks]

Okay guys I spotted a few things that might be causing the
the low fuel trim to stay at 81 unless I take out -23 on the safc
the sputtering at the tap of the throttles(goes away when im at wot and part throttle)
So this is what I have
o2 sensor
coolant temp sensor
wires
plugs
coil
What you guys think about this list? Its not the ecu. I had steve rebuild mines.
Oh I say the coil because I recently found that my plugs read different. The same plugs that read different, on the coil the inlets look ####ed!

 

[dsmsucks]

Hey guys, any input on the parts I named (easy rep points )

I know its not fpr over run. I just unrewired my fuel pump and the same thing happens!
Could the coolant temp sensor cause low fuel trim to stay at 81.2?

 

[spyderturbo007]

You will need to have the lo throttle settings in the negative region for your fuel trims to get back to 100%. At 81.5% the ECU is removing fuel because of a persistent rich condition. This is caused by your larger injectors flowing more fuel in a given IDC than the stock injectors. Remember, the ECU has no idea, nor does it care, what size injectors you are running.

Do you have all of your Ne points set? Is the SAFC set to Karman? Do you have the number of cylinders set properly? Did you set your TPS trigger points at 30% and 80%? Did you verify that at WOT the TPS on the logger reads 100%?

Once you have all of that done, free rev the car to your first Ne point.....let's say 1000rpm. Now take a look at your logger and adjust the SAFC negative unitl your FT's begin to approach 100%. Once you have them close to 100% (they don't have to be exact) move to your next Ne point and do the same thing. Continue this process until you reach your 4k Ne point.

Take your 4k Ne point setting and transfer that across the rest of the Lo throttle table. For example, if your 4k point is -19% then make every other Ne point, higher than 4k, -19%.

Now, write all of these settings down on a peice of paper and move on to your high throttle table. Use the same settings as a baseline for the Hi throttle table. After you have done that, make a 3rd gear pull from 2.5k to redline logging timing, airflow, rpm and knock.....only.

Oh, make sure you do a boost leak test before you start all of this!

 

[dsmsucks]

Update

Okay guys a bad coil is ruled out. The plug that goes to the coil from the car has a shortage in it. I tied it down and the car runs perfect! Im going to get a used one soon! So that takes car on the sputtering and different readings the spark plugs were getting. Doesnt explain the stuck fuel trims? Any input would be great?
I was leaning toward o2 sensor.
spyderturbo007 rep points was given. I dont have a leak. I did a test and nothing came up! I also replaced every gasket and seal that has pressure.
thanks

 

[sbiggi]

You have a 2g maf and 550cc injectors correct?
With that combination you should only need to be making small corrections on the afc, like -10% or less.

Leaning it out as much as you are indicates you have a bad boost leak.


Only the low fuel trim is going to move fast, and probably only at idle.

The high fuel trim isnt going to move unless you go out on the highway and just cruise. Basically your low throttle corrections above 1500rpm will effect your high fuel trim.

-Seth

 

[dsmsucks]

You have a 2g maf and 550cc injectors correct?
With that combination you should only need to be making small corrections on the afc, like -10% or less.

Leaning it out as much as you are indicates you have a bad boost leak.


Only the low fuel trim is going to move fast, and probably only at idle.

The high fuel trim isnt going to move unless you go out on the highway and just cruise. Basically your low throttle corrections above 1500rpm will effect your high fuel trim.

-Seth

Rep points!!!! thanks
Okay I found another thing that might be causing the low fuel trim to not move. Im missing a the turbine stud and bolt. So I have an exhaust leak before the o2 housing . So Im going to replace the o2 sensor 2morrow, get another stud and bolt and do a boost leak test. I really dont see how I can have a leak seeing I replace the jpipe gaskets, Jb weld supra sidemount, throttle body gaskets, intake manifold gasket and injector seals.

 

[sbiggi]

Rep points!!!! thanks
Okay I found another thing that might be causing the low fuel trim to not move. Im missing a the turbine stud and bolt. So I have an exhaust leak before the o2 housing . So Im going to replace the o2 sensor 2morrow, get another stud and bolt and do a boost leak test. I really dont see how I can have a leak seeing I replace the jpipe gaskets, Jb weld supra sidemount, throttle body gaskets, intake manifold gasket and injector seals.

You would be suprised. Build a leak tester, its the only way to tell.

Even with t-bolt clamps tightend down, I find small leaks every now and then.