10 Seconds On Straight Pump Gas

[1SloColt]

Dre also made 500whp on pump with his custom spec to4e.

That was on a 2.4 bucko.

 

[GVR4592]

That was on a 2.4 bucko.

It was on a 2.0, he didn't go to the 2.4 until after he made 503whp. There are extensive threads on this in the AEM forums. To my knowledge nobody has made more than his 503whp on a 2.0 4g63 using pumpgas.

The FP car was a 2.3. They posted that on here sometime last year.

 

[GVR4592]

seriously untill you people are running the exact same setup and have nate tune it (because he is a master mind). don't say things like "i just find it hard to believe", because you have no idea what this setup is capable of.

Team pump gas camera man

It is hard to believe, regardless of how the car is setup. I don't disbelieve it, but it's hard for everybody to believe it when it's so far from what anybody else has done. If you'd care to share some of the details that have allowed you to do this, people would be more likely to believe you.

 

[nanokpsi]

I'm also in the non beliver camp. Not about the power being able to be made on pump, just the settings that are on the Link to get the time on pump. You don't run 29psi and 19+ deg timing on pump gas unless you have some sort of injection (water/meth/alky) or your pump gas is of the 100+ variety. It doesn't really matter though, the car is fast.

 

[super95awd]

Well it does really matter, cause there is absolutely no injection of any kind, and the car is on 93 octane gas. Honestly, I will tape a continuous video of my drive to the gas station to put in 93, to the track, and make my run. But then everybody would just say that I had c16 in the tank before hand and blah, blah, blah. So basically, I can't win. To all the people who actually believe me, thanks, and the 9 sec pump gas pass will be for you guys.

Andrew --- Team Pump Gas

 

[super95awd]

It is hard to believe, regardless of how the car is setup. I don't disbelieve it, but it's hard for everybody to believe it when it's so far from what anybody else has done. If you'd care to share some of the details that have allowed you to do this, people would be more likely to believe you.

We've honestly shared everything there is to share, there are no secrets. As far as it being so far from what anybody else has done, that's what we're trying to accomplish. God forbid if I ran a 9 on pump, I would be banished from the DSM community or hung for being a witch.

 

[1990EclipseGSX]

Something does not add up here. Crunching your AFR and IDC numbers to back out actual aiflow, I come up with 68.9lb/min.

In the log, you are running 94.4% duty cycle @ 11.5:1 AFR @ 7584 RPM in 4th gear.

Your profile says 950cc injectors.... SO:

Assuming a SG of .76 (for pump gas), a 950cc injector will flow 89.967 lb/hr @ 94.4% duty cycle.

Multiplying by 4, we get 359.868 lb/hr for all 4 injectors operating @ 94.4% duty cycle

Dividing by 60, you are flowing 5.998 lb/min of fuel @ 94.4% duty cycle.

Now, you are running an AFR of 11.5:1. So if we multiply 5.998 by 11.5, we come up with 68.97 lb/min of airflow, on a turbo capable of flowing 52lb/min.

Something does not add up. Am I missing something here?


Also, I would be amazed if a FP3052 could run 9's without the help of nitrous, regardless of the type of gas used.


EDIT: I have been thinking about this. I am thinking your WB02 reading is not correct. If you plug in 9.5:1 AFR into the above jazz, I come up with 56.9 lb/min of airflow, which seems much more reasonable for the turbo and mods. This would make the timing you are running seem much more reasonable. Have you verified that the wideband reads correctly?

 

[gsxnate99]

Here's to 9's .... TEAM PUMP GAS

 

[MotownTSI]

We've honestly shared everything there is to share, there are no secrets. As far as it being so far from what anybody else has done, that's what we're trying to accomplish. God forbid if I ran a 9 on pump, I would be banished from the DSM community or hung for being a witch.

no don't tag the whold community as disbelievers. there are always going to be the select few that will criticize you for accomplishing something they could never accomplish. we are paying to much attention to those who disbelieve and not enough attention to the overwhelming support of the 10 second pump gas car.

and i will say it once more...Congrats andrew, that was a sight to see

TPG

 

[DSM90AWD]

It's not that noone believes you, it's just some of us are trying to make sense out of your accomplishment as it deviates (the tuning for pump) from what has been done in the past Dre made mad power on pump but had huge turbine/exhaust/FMIC and very low timing.

Something does not add up. Am I missing something here?

I got the same thing (59.79 lb/min) which was why I'd asked about the AFRs.

Also, I would be amazed if a FP3052 could run 9's without the help of nitrous, regardless of the type of gas used

Solid 10s have been achieved on a 14B without N2O, with ~300WHP (reasonable for a 14B) in a very light FWD car so 9s on a 52lb/min turbo are definitely achievable

 

[super95awd]

The WBO2 reading SHOULD be correct considering it agrees exactly with the display. Plus the fact that if I was running 9.5:1, I don't care how much timing I threw at the car, it's not going to run 10.8. Your thoughts are exactly what everybody's thoughts were after my car made the power that it made on pump gas. It shouldn't have been possible with a turbo that was only rated at 52 lb/min. I've always gotten it to flow up around 60-62 lb/min since I've had it on the stroker. 67, however, is pretty interesting. Obviously whatever we are doing is working, so we are definitely going to pursue it. Also, I doubt our 9's will be achieved without the help of nitrous. We'll have to see when the time comes.

Andrew
Team Pump Gas

 

[red91gst]

Something does not add up here. Crunching your AFR and IDC numbers to back out actual aiflow, I come up with 68.9lb/min.

In the log, you are running 94.4% duty cycle @ 11.5:1 AFR @ 7584 RPM in 4th gear.

Your profile says 950cc injectors.... SO:

Assuming a SG of .76 (for pump gas), a 950cc injector will flow 89.967 lb/hr @ 94.4% duty cycle.

Multiplying by 4, we get 359.868 lb/hr for all 4 injectors operating @ 94.4% duty cycle

Dividing by 60, you are flowing 5.998 lb/min of fuel @ 94.4% duty cycle.

Now, you are running an AFR of 11.5:1. So if we multiply 5.998 by 11.5, we come up with 68.97 lb/min of airflow, on a turbo capable of flowing 52lb/min.

Something does not add up. Am I missing something here?


Also, I would be amazed if a FP3052 could run 9's without the help of nitrous, regardless of the type of gas used.


EDIT: I have been thinking about this. I am thinking your WB02 reading is not correct. If you plug in 9.5:1 AFR into the above jazz, I come up with 56.9 lb/min of airflow, which seems much more reasonable for the turbo and mods. This would make the timing you are running seem much more reasonable. Have you verified that the wideband reads correctly?

Your also assuming a standard base fuel pressure of 43.5psi? Fuel pressure will change your calculations slightly, as well as the actual specific gravity of the fuel used.

Either way, great info and this is turning into a very informative thread.

The car will not run at 9.5:1 afr, so thats not that case. There are so many variables to really give an exact value.

Nonetheless, the facts are its on 93oct and went 10.80. We're making some changes to the car in the next week or so then back to the track to upset more people.

Nate
Team Pump Gas

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Andrew,

after my new goodies come in, we'll meet up at PRP for King Pump Gas title

Granted, I'll have a lightened car, but I'm on the stock shortblock

Edit : Come to think of it, maybe Nate can chime in here - how lenient is PRP on running sub 11.49 without a roll bar? I may only get one pass in

 

[super95awd]

They didn't really care TOO much. They mainly cared that I was running in a class that the fastest you could dial was a 12.00. In test and tune, I don't feel like they'd care too much. Oh and BTW, good luck with the pump gas, and have fun trying to catch me .

 

[1990EclipseGSX]

Your also assuming a standard base fuel pressure of 43.5psi? Fuel pressure will change your calculations slightly, as well as the actual specific gravity of the fuel used.

Either way, great info and this is turning into a very informative thread.

Yea, I assumed a base FP of 43.5. What FP is the car actually running?


Also, it seems to me like a car flowing 65+ lb/min of air should be going WAY faster than 128mph

 

[gsxnate99]

I donno bout king pump gas... 9's is goin to pretty hard to catch


TPG

 

[red91gst]

Yea, I assumed a base FP of 43.5. What FP is the car actually running?


Also, it seems to me like a car flowing 65+ lb/min of air should be going WAY faster than 128mph

Thats a great point and somthing alot of people are overlooking. You dont need to make 600+awhp to run into the tens, hell Curt did it with just over 400. The car has a great drivetrain and a pretty damn good driver.

I've also found over the years that a bog off the line kills the mph, while tire spin yeilds higher than usual mph, but both situations seem to net the same ET.

I think with a better launch the car would have run a 10.55 or so at 131-2mph.

You'll have to ask Andrew about the fuel pressure, I think is was a bit higher than that.

Nate
Team Pump Gas

 

[Jasper16g]

Congrats on the time Andrew. That thing is smokin!!!!

Think you could drive our Evo up there sometime? I know it will hit 11's with you behind the wheel.

Squigs

 

[Wufei]

Congrats! That's pretty amazing!

 

[super95awd]

Hell ya, I'll jump behind the wheel of the Evo. I've got some seat time in those beasts. Base fuel pressure was at 45psi I believe.

 

[Dream On]

Nice job man, keep it up, whatever you're doing!

 

[fast4g63t]

whats up andy nice to see this car is doing much better than the old white one you had. I had bought my first talon of of richie just wondering if he is still racing his talon its been a few years since ive seen him. The last time i knew he had he was in the tens also.Where was the dragstrip where the video was shot i know there arent too many in wv

 

[super95awd]

I'm not Andy Thorne, I'm Andrew Kisner. I know him, but that's not me . I'm pretty sure Richie just fell of the face of the planet, I have no idea what he's been up to.

 

[Jasper16g]

I'm not Andy Thorne, I'm Andrew Kisner. I know him, but that's not me . I'm pretty sure Richie just fell of the face of the planet, I have no idea what he's been up to.

Ritchie just got out of the scene from what I have heard. I haven't seen him in a long time though, so not sure if he is still working on something new or not?

Squigs

 

[fast4g63t]

sorry about that thought you were kisner i wonder if he still has his talon.But anyway congratulations on the time nice 60ft im hoping to get a stutterbox for my laser im rebuilding maybe sometime this year ill get to see you up at the old keystone raceway. Just wondering also if you know anyone that works at morgantown motors my younger brother is a technician there.