Why so many DSM haters ? is it really that bad ?

[91stocker]

What's a 1g have to do with it? You think they hate 2g's?

People absolutely hate on 2g's more. The 2g is the national ricer symbol. I doubt the 2g will ever permanently shake the image of that green monster that started it all.


Luckily 1g's never got lumped into that shit. Not as flashy, all business. I think 1g's generally do get more respect because of that ^^ plus they are generally faster. Hardly ever see any fast 2g's honestly. Even at shootout 1g's run the show.

 

[Boosted DSM 32]

I know tons of people that have STI's and WRX's and if anyone them laugh or make fun of dsm's I just laugh at them, there cars cost 40k new and there slow as piss and cant make shit for power with stock stuff compared to an evo or dsm, all Subaru owners do the stage 2 and call it quits because its easy to do and doesnt involve work.

Not to mention there heavy as hell and every guy that i know with a new subaru has had there car in the shop atleast multifple times.. Evos and subarus shouldnt even be in the same category them evo is such a more capable power platform its not even funny soo at subaru tho they do seem to be good rally cars, but street stats evo and dsm owns subaru in every way

 

[n0de]

So your comeback to a hater is "can't wait till you are forced to buy an old car!"? .......................
.........
................

I don't need a comeback for haters, its hard to hear them talk shit from ten car lengths behind trying to catch up.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

There may be some merit to the "2G's catching more flack" theories.

Around here at least, 1Gs are pretty rare to see on the street (presumably most are jack stand racing) the ones you do see are stock beaters driven by people who could not care less about the car let alone modding them, modded beaters that are actually very fast.. or built-to-the-hilt of the couple I've seen in good condition and taken care of.

Almost universally the 2Gs are riced out covered in stickers, lights and half-assed body kits.. just loud abominations that are ever only moments from needing a tow or having to pull over and pick up something that just fell off..

There is one nice Silver 2G GSX 5MT driven by a woman that works in the same building as me, but shes done nothing to it except for some wheels.

These are my anecdotal observations, but I keep an eye out.

I am partial to 1Gs, but I do love the look of a clean 98-99 GSX in white or red.. the first thing that comes to mind though is F&F for most of them however.

 

[n0de]

There may be some merit to the "2G's catching more flack" theories.

Around here at least, 1Gs are pretty rare to see on the street (presumably most are jack stand racing) the ones you do see are stock beaters driven by people who could not care less about the car let alone modding them, modded beaters that are actually very fast.. or built-to-the-hilt of the couple I've seen in good condition and taken care of.

Almost universally the 2Gs are riced out covered in stickers, lights and half-assed body kits.. just loud abominations that are ever only moments from needing a tow or having to pull over and pick up something that just fell off..

There is one nice Silver 2G GSX 5MT driven by a woman that works in the same building as me, but shes done nothing to it except for some wheels.

These are my anecdotal observations, but I keep an eye out.

I am partial to 1Gs, but I do love the look of a clean 98-99 GSX in white or red.. the first thing that comes to mind though is F&F for most of them however.

I guess that is for the most part, true. I lived in Naperville, not too far out from Chicago, I rarely saw a 1g roaming around unless it was pre 2004 near some race spots like Archer Ave, 42nd & pulaski or Near Division and 94. Who knows if any show up by Strats in Villa Park in this day and age. Hopefully I'll come back to Chicago and add a +1 to the 1g population.

 

[phunny]

Some of the comments here are amazing. I've lived all over the country and always been in the "car scene" and couldn't disagree with the "people respect 1G's more." 99% of car guys agree that the 1Gs are outdated and fugly so I'm not sure who you are talking to, but if I had to guess I'd say you're talking to other 1G owners.
As far as speed, a 1g can be had for almost nothing and people don't mind gutting them. I prefer true street cars anyway anyway so maybe I'm a little biased. I'd rather have a low 10 second car that doesn't rattle like its coming apart than a 9 second pos.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

I like how this thread went from others hating on dsms to another 1g vs 2g thread.

 

[n0de]

Some of the comments here are amazing. I've lived all over the country and always been in the "car scene" and couldn't disagree with the "people respect 1G's more." 99% of car guys agree that the 1Gs are outdated and fugly so I'm not sure who you are talking to, but if I had to guess I'd say you're talking to other 1G owners.
As far as speed, a 1g can be had for almost nothing and people don't mind gutting them. I prefer true street cars anyway anyway so maybe I'm a little biased. I'd rather have a low 10 second car that doesn't rattle like its coming apart than a 9 second pos.

I must be in the 1% of car guys who don't think the 1g is fugly.

I like how this thread went from others hating on dsms to another 1g vs 2g thread.

^^ This

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I like how this thread went from others hating on dsms to another 1g vs 2g thread.

Worry about others hating on DSMs? Aint nobody got time for that.

Hating on each other? Certainly. More brotherly love than anything haha

Some of the comments here are amazing. I've lived all over the country and always been in the "car scene" and couldn't disagree with the "people respect 1G's more." 99% of car guys agree that the 1Gs are outdated and fugly so I'm not sure who you are talking to, but if I had to guess I'd say you're talking to other 1G owners.
As far as speed, a 1g can be had for almost nothing and people don't mind gutting them. I prefer true street cars anyway anyway so maybe I'm a little biased. I'd rather have a low 10 second car that doesn't rattle like its coming apart than a 9 second pos.

Well, see.. I said anecdotal. My experience has been the opposite of yours. Definitely not going to try to speak for 99% of car guys, and the "true street car" discussion is entirely relative.

What's street-able for me.. is unthinkable for many.

1Gs that survive our teenagers, roads and winters end up in any of the three conditions I described in my post, heavily populating the second category of "modded beater" more so than the other two.

2Gs around here, as evidenced by another former Chicago inhabitant, tend to almost unanimously fall into the "hacked F&F wanna be" category. The rest seem to be entirely stock. Maybe 1 in a 1000, being generous here.. its perhaps less, have been modified to both perform and look classy.

Which is a shame, because as I also tried to point out.. I like clean 2GB Eclipses in white or red. This would include your car, based on your avatar.

Local to me was a prime example of what I was talking about: 2GA with a "custom" over-body fiberglass kit of some sort, supra tail conversion, buzzy exhaust and loud as shit, knock-off SSQV and S-AFC2 tuned (poorly)

 

[Black-Out]

I know tons of people that have STI's and WRX's and if anyone them laugh or make fun of dsm's I just laugh at them, there cars cost 40k new and there slow as piss and cant make shit for power with stock stuff compared to an evo or dsm, all Subaru owners do the stage 2 and call it quits because its easy to do and doesnt involve work.

Not to mention there heavy as hell and every guy that i know with a new subaru has had there car in the shop atleast multifple times.. Evos and subarus shouldnt even be in the same category them evo is such a more capable power platform its not even funny soo at subaru tho they do seem to be good rally cars, but street stats evo and dsm owns subaru in every way

Generalizations my friend.....Thats a mighty wide brush you're using especially seeing as how I'm was one of the Subaru guys you're talking about .... around here the average scooby will put down 300awhp- I had an 02' WRX that on the scales weighed in at 3085lbs curb wieght (No heavier than a GSX) and my car made 335awhp and 345lbs-ft of torque with a VF39,255 Wally in the tank,565cc STI pinks,an STI molybdenum steel lightened flywheel, a factory clutch, lightened crank pully and header back exhaust with a re flashed ecu.......

Maybe in your area Subaru owners half-ass their cars but in my area everyone takes their shit seriously....as for power keep in mind that nearly every Subaru will be capable of high power number if you want to spend the money, but you have to spend the money.....ESX's WRX made 1400awhp.....how is that not making power comparable to a DSM or an Evo? I used to dust off cats like you that had evo 16Gturbos on your cars and thought they were bad ass because I was only running a Subaru. Evo's and Subaru's are very much in the same class. One is easier to drive, uses electronics to save the drivers ass, and is cheaper to make fast till you want to make more than 400awhp after that both guys will spend a lot of money...The other requires the driver to be more involved and tend to lunch pistons. All cars have their short comings, but honestly I really have seen both cars race each other in multiple states of tune and seen both cars rip the other to shreads in all types of racing. which is the point.
Even Jun's Super Lemon Evo 5 was beaten by their Hyper Lemon GDB WRX-STI
To say such things that you have is nothing shy of just being bone headed and one sided.....It's all bullshit.....


As for 2g's getting hated on thats common place.... these cars are usually the ones you see with a half assed asassin body kit being held on by duct tape and a fart can hanging off the back bumper being help on by bailing wire smoking . I drive my 2G and I get complemented on it all the time a lot of times I get people offerening to buy it from me. The fact is Clean cars will get praised even if they still need work ....The riced cars don't.....

 

[phunny]

I don't think it's a 1g vs 2g debate as they each have their place. One problem the 1g's have is that parts are almost non existent and 2gs are quickly heading down that road.

I believe a lot of people hate on our cars because there are so many dsm attitudes against other platforms. The new DSM'ers think that paying actual money for quality parts is absurd so anytime we see a car that someone has payed a decent amount of money for and it's still an 11 second car we look down on them. Just look at the amount of vendors than have been pushed away.

 

[DanielMandon]

I don't think it's a 1g vs 2g debate as they each have their place. One problem the 1g's have is that parts are almost non existent and 2gs are quickly heading down that road.

I believe a lot of people hate on our cars because there are so many dsm attitudes against other platforms. The new DSM'ers think that paying actual money for quality parts is absurd so anytime we see a car that someone has payed a decent amount of money for and it's still an 11 second car we look down on them. Just look at the amount of vendors than have been pushed away.

This is true. When I had my EVO X it was so freaking nice to be able to buy AMS parts for it......

At least we are finally reaching the point for 1gs where the lack of parts has led to some serious custom options becoming available for those of us who can spend some coin. (a good for instance is the custom Ohlins coilover setup for 1gs).

 

[91stocker]

This, this is why......./thread

 

[Black-Out]

I don't think it's a 1g vs 2g debate as they each have their place. One problem the 1g's have is that parts are almost non existent and 2gs are quickly heading down that road.

I believe a lot of people hate on our cars because there are so many dsm attitudes against other platforms. The new DSM'ers think that paying actual money for quality parts is absurd so anytime we see a car that someone has payed a decent amount of money for and it's still an 11 second car we look down on them. Just look at the amount of vendors than have been pushed away.

Thats true but I also see a TON of other fanboys headed down the same path- I been in the game since the late 80's when most people didn't even know WTF a turbocharger was..... I've seen the game change and with it the egos as well.
Right now GTR guys Evo and STI guys are pretty much all in the same boat as far as attitudes about the platforms they choose to modify and why.
I'm a car guy first- I love almost anything from hot rods and muscle cars to Japaneese Imports, European imports and anything else you can dream up. I love all types of car for all types of reasons so when I hear people trash things about one car type without aknowledging the capabilities of a well executed example I get iritated because thats not a true car guy talking- Thats a fanboy talking and it's the kind of thing that makes going to the street meets seem worthless.

I have a friend,Donnie, who eats, sleeps, breathes Mitsubishi and you know what? I'm cool with that......But the other day he was going on and on about how the ZR-1 Corvette was a P.O.S. and how it's slow and this that and the other and how it's not a track car blah,blah,blah- I about shit standing up....My response was "So let me get this strait, you drive a 98' Mirage with a slightly modified 1.8 liter in it, that can barely muster a high 16 second quarter mile, but yet somewhere in your mind you feel obligated to trash talk a car that runs high ten second quarter miles and 7.20's at the Nurburgring Nordschlife? You know why you hate the Corvette ZR-1 so much? because here in America and all over the freakin' world that thing is becoming the bench mark for its price range....." I just would like to see a little more honesty in the car guy points of view even if they don't care for a car-. It's like this. I was never a huge Mustang fan- But even an idiot has to admit that a car that traps 110mph (Stock 2013 5.0) in the standing quarter mile isn't a slow car. It would have it's way with most cars that pull up along side it, and it wouldn't look or sound bad doing it. For every Nissan 240 fanboy thats ever tried to trash talk DSM's to every muscle head that lumps all imports into the ricer group, the attitudes as a whole have gotten pretty ridiculous if you ask me and I realize not everyone is askin' ......

This, this is why......./thread

^^^ So true ^^^ and what the hell is that on the side of the car?!?

 

[WES_393]

Stage rally/ WRC

Sure, I could understad that if every Evo on the road wasnt lowered on cheap coilovers with Lo Pro's and knockoff alloy rims. They couldnt be farther from Rally cars in their typical form. However, the DSM is the meanest "import" to ever hit the drag strap and is setup specifically for road use. So again, how is the average Evo a race car yet the average DSM isn't?

 

[n0de]

^^^ So true ^^^ and what the hell is that on the side of the car?!?

1000hp worth of stickers?

 

[awdtalon4451]

1000hp worth of stickers?

Yeessss!!!! Where do I get those at???

 

[H4G64T]

Half of the local crap talkers group 420As with 4G63s when it comes to DSMs. That's the real reason for the hate. Sorry.

 

[JusMX141]

Let the stereotypes begin.


1G's are better for drag, 2G's are better for street. I couldn't pick a favorite, so I have both.

Evo owners are DSM owners who either finally got a good job, or sold a car or eight.

Honda's are driven by high school kids who have no clue what a fast car really is. Their mods are described in "stages", their turbos in "trim". Like that means a f*cking thing.

WRX's are driven by people who like to think they can pull off driving a hardcore rally car on the street. Newsflash....the Subie you're driving is closer to a golf cart than a competitive rally car.

VW guys are gamer nerds. End of story.

....and then there's the domestic guys. Go to the dragstrip and find the most musclebound guy there- guaranteed he drives a Mustang or a Camaro. If he used to play football too, that's bonus points. They deserve respect as these guys will spend thousands of dollars on a car that is clearly not worth the money they're putting into it just to subtract a couple tenths from their timeslip- something we can do by simply turning the boost controller in 1/4-turn or so.


As you can see, DSM's are a superior platform.

 

[H4G64T]

Let the stereotypes begin.


1G's are better for drag, 2G's are better for street. I couldn't pick a favorite, so I have both.

Evo owners are DSM owners who either finally got a good job, or sold a car or eight.

Honda's are driven by high school kids who have no clue what a fast car really is. Their mods are described in "stages", their turbos in "trim". Like that means a f*cking thing.

WRX's are driven by people who like to think they can pull off driving a hardcore rally car on the street. Newsflash....the Subie you're driving is closer to a golf cart than a rally car.

VW guys are gamer nerds. End of story.

....and then there's the domestic guys. Go to the dragstrip and find the most musclebound guy there- guaranteed he drives a Mustang or a Camaro. If he used to play football too, that's bonus points. They deserve respect as these guys will spend thousands of dollars on a car that is clearly not worth the money they're putting into it just to subtract a couple tenths from their timeslip- something we can do by simply turning the boost controller in 1/4-turn or so.


As you can see, DSM's are a superior platform.

You forgot the most important one.

If you don't have a 10 second DSM, you don't know shit. If you do have a 10 second DSM, you know everything.

 

[DSM_prospecT]

See is part of the problem right here. Guys/kids/small animals that could have never afforded DSM's 10 year ago when we were paying around 30k for them can now afford them. The problem with that is that this new group of owners thinks its horrible to have spent any amount of money on a car, this is because they can't afford it, so yeah let's talk about haters... I've also never seen a STI with a Home Depot boost controller.

I'm one of those guys, and I do plan on dumping a ridiculous amount of money into my spyder. So maybe not be so quick to jump to conclusions. (I just turned 25 my first car was an SHO)

Take for example my 95 Yamaha banshee, 6k new + 3-4k in parts; yet I bought it for 1.5k and only had to replace a cdi box. My point is, there's a difference between being cheap, and knowing a good deal when you see one.

 

[Black-Out]

1000hp worth of stickers?

rotf!!!

Let the stereotypes begin.


1G's are better for drag, 2G's are better for street. I couldn't pick a favorite, so I have both.

Evo owners are DSM owners who either finally got a good job, or sold a car or eight.

Honda's are driven by high school kids who have no clue what a fast car really is. Their mods are described in "stages", their turbos in "trim". Like that means a f*cking thing.

WRX's are driven by people who like to think they can pull off driving a hardcore rally car on the street. Newsflash....the Subie you're driving is closer to a golf cart than a competitive rally car.

VW guys are gamer nerds. End of story.

....and then there's the domestic guys. Go to the dragstrip and find the most musclebound guy there- guaranteed he drives a Mustang or a Camaro. If he used to play football too, that's bonus points. They deserve respect as these guys will spend thousands of dollars on a car that is clearly not worth the money they're putting into it just to subtract a couple tenths from their timeslip- something we can do by simply turning the boost controller in 1/4-turn or so.


As you can see, DSM's are a superior platform.

So glad you slid VW guys in there I'm one of those too......Still have my Corrado G60 and in case you wondered I ####ing LOVE Forza ......

 

[DanielMandon]

Let the stereotypes begin.


Evo owners are DSM owners who either finally got a good job, or sold a car or eight.



....and then there's the domestic guys. Go to the dragstrip and find the most musclebound guy there- guaranteed he drives a Mustang or a Camaro. If he used to play football too, that's bonus points. They deserve respect as these guys will spend thousands of dollars on a car that is clearly not worth the money they're putting into it just to subtract a couple tenths from their timeslip- something we can do by simply turning the boost controller in 1/4-turn or so.


As you can see, DSM's are a superior platform.

But I sold my DSM - bought an EVO X - decided I didn't like it and bought a DSM again. Where does that put me?

Oh yeah I also own a Boss 302 so I guess I fit stereotype #2.

 

[91stocker]

....and then there's the domestic guys. Go to the dragstrip and find the most musclebound guy there- guaranteed he drives a Mustang or a Camaro. If he used to play football too, that's bonus points. They deserve respect as these guys will spend thousands of dollars on a car that is clearly not worth the money they're putting into it just to subtract a couple tenths from their timeslip- something we can do by simply turning the boost controller in 1/4-turn or so.

The problem with the statement is though, that they spend the money on real parts, shit that dont break. Spend more on a trans then any dsm is worth. They run the same set ups year in and year out for several seasons. Plus if their cars run .01 off, theres something wrong with the car. Watch the seasoned bracket guys run.

Manual imports are embarrassing as #### to watch on the strip. I mean its quite amusing from the spectator's view. Watching the car buck around throwing the driver around like a bull rider. Watching a solid 9 second car run 10.50's-12 flats . Shit launching, non shifting, breaking every other pass. I mean breaking is the only thing they do consistently. But hey they have antilag

Really imports are the only thing at the tracks not worth putting money into. There are entire classes of n/a muscle cars that run faster then the record import. And thats usually only 1 car of its kind to ever go that fast. No import competes in any real drag event, never has, never will.

Titan's 2jz 10.5 car gave it a good run, managing to qualify and even win some lesser events. But after a few seasons of finishing like 23rd in the standings they abandoned that project. As far as i know anyway.

Why cant people just accept imports for what they are, a quick/fun street car. Nothing more. There's nothing wrong with that either.

 

[ZombieSix]

Let the stereotypes begin.


1G's are better for drag, 2G's are better for street. I couldn't pick a favorite, so I have both.

Evo owners are DSM owners who either finally got a good job, or sold a car or eight.

Honda's are driven by high school kids who have no clue what a fast car really is. Their mods are described in "stages", their turbos in "trim". Like that means a f*cking thing.

WRX's are driven by people who like to think they can pull off driving a hardcore rally car on the street. Newsflash....the Subie you're driving is closer to a golf cart than a competitive rally car.

VW guys are gamer nerds. End of story.

....and then there's the domestic guys. Go to the dragstrip and find the most musclebound guy there- guaranteed he drives a Mustang or a Camaro. If he used to play football too, that's bonus points. They deserve respect as these guys will spend thousands of dollars on a car that is clearly not worth the money they're putting into it just to subtract a couple tenths from their timeslip- something we can do by simply turning the boost controller in 1/4-turn or so.


As you can see, DSM's are a superior platform.

Nailed it. One day i hope to grow up and get an Evo IX and thanks to my DSM i will be one of the FEW evo owners who actually work on thier cars themselves instead of paying a shop to do EVERYTHING. I was talking to a guy who had a pretty clean 9 and he payed a shop about 1500 dollars to install a FP RED and a FMIC kit, then put a ECU Flash tune on it. My jaw about dropped.