Why are 1G's and 2G's rated as having the same 1/4 mile time????

[TracOwner]

even though they have different turbos, manifolds and whatsoever........

 

[tim4g63fast]

so this is my belief.

#1 i think a 2g is a pig. i may be wrong but they look a hell of alot heavier than a 1g
#2 a 2g makes slightly more horse.
#3 I should do more research but i guess its all power to weight in the end right.

they make a little more power with a 2g by bumping up compression, having a better port velocity on the head, and maby slightly larger intercooler piping stock and the TB elbow. they made some things crappier and some things better.

 

[Defiant]

Trying not to turn into a bench race, but the 2G has more takeoff and the 1G has more top-end. That's also from owning both, and having an especially large assometer.

 

[Defiant]

so this is my belief.

#1 i think a 2g is a pig. i may be wrong but they look a hell of alot heavier than a 1g

About fifty pounds.

#2 a 2g makes slightly more horse.

Stated as 195 vs. 210. When they were new.

 

[fwdturbobov1996]

so this is my belief.

#1 i think a 2g is a pig. i may be wrong but they look a hell of alot heavier than a 1g
#2 a 2g makes slightly more horse.
#3 I should do more research but i guess its all power to weight in the end right.

they make a little more power with a 2g by bumping up compression, having a better port velocity on the head, and maby slightly larger intercooler piping stock and the TB elbow. they made some things crappier and some things better.

which is why all the 2g guys swap on a 1g head....

 

[eclipsh]

which is why all the 2g guys swap on a 1g head....

If you are just drag racing, the 1G head has bigger runners and will get more top end IF you are running a giant turbo at very high PSI.

If you are doing autocross or road/track racing the 2G head is supposed to have better flow characteristics. It all depends on what you are doing.

 

[Defiant]

If you are doing autocross or road/track racing the 2G head is supposed to have better flow characteristics.

Or, just driving around town.

 

[gsxtacy]

The 2G head IS better all around IF you want a well balanced car that makes good power down low and up top also.

The 1G head is specifically better for a Dyno Queen with the primary goal of Peak numbers.

This has already been hashed to bits in other threads but believe what ever you want.

gsxtacy

 

[eclipsh]

The 2G head IS better all around IF you want a well balanced car that makes good power down low and up top also.

The 1G head is specifically better for a Dyno Queen with the primary goal of Peak numbers.

This has already been hashed to bits in other threads but believe what ever you want.

gsxtacy

Sorry to take over someone elses thread, but what about when you're running a cyclone intake? I know they give you more low end. Is it still worth swapping a 2g head onto a 1g if it blows?

 

[Goodguy162000]

The 2G head IS better all around IF you want a well balanced car that makes good power down low and up top also.

The 1G head is specifically better for a Dyno Queen with the primary goal of Peak numbers.

This has already been hashed to bits in other threads but believe what ever you want.

gsxtacy

What a very ignorant thing to say. Do you mean a well balanced car as in it weighs about 200lbs more than it's 1st gen counterpart? Or perhaps it's well balanced because the engine is made of a weaker (and cheaper) aluminum as compared to the iron block of the "Dyno Queen" 1G. Perhaps the 2G is better because it comes with a smaller turbo. Hmm... rather than being prejudice and resorting to childish name calling you should do just a little bit of research. Perhaps then you could begin to spread more reliable information. You know, reliable as in the six bolt motor that is not prone to crankwalk like its younger 7-bolted DSM family is. Or even reliable as in the the door handle won't break off in your palm at about 70,000 miles. Really, what do you mean?

 

[Defiant]

Sorry to take over someone elses thread, but what about when you're running a cyclone intake? I know they give you more low end.

Or, they do in Japan where there's the ECU and hardware to run them. They don't seem to have a lot of luck over here, as so few are running them, and many more have tried and decided "screw it".

 

[Defiant]

What a very ignorant thing to say. Do you mean a well balanced car as in it weighs about 200lbs more than it's 1st gen counterpart?

Again, about fifty according to the 1000AAQ pages.

Or perhaps it's well balanced because the engine is made of a weaker (and cheaper) aluminum as compared to the iron block of the "Dyno Queen" 1G.

What? No DSMs have aluminum blocks. They're all iron.

Perhaps the 2G is better because it comes with a smaller turbo.

Which will spin up faster, and sooner. It'll get wheezy sooner, too, but not many road conditions let you wind an engine all the way out for a long time.

Hmm... rather than being prejudice and resorting to childish name calling you should do just a little bit of research.

Some of us have.

Perhaps then you could begin to spread more reliable information. You know, reliable as in the six bolt motor that is not prone to crankwalk like its younger 7-bolted DSM family is.

Or, is widely purported to be. The reality is far below the myth.

Or even reliable as in the the door handle won't break off in your palm at about 70,000 miles.

I don't recall that being part of the question. WTF

 

[napkinthief]

125k and still both stock handles intact


keeping the 2g manifold is better for you, unless you have a really big turbo on the car, in which case you would then use the 1g manifold, you wont notice much difference.

 

[gsxtacy]

Well balanced in my book means: Does everything asked of it....well. Whether that be Auto-X, Street, Drag Strip, country road, where ever.

And what are you talking abou tgood guy? I never resorted to "childish name calling".

Everyone knows the only reason a 2G makes more "advertised" hp is because everything about the 2g 7 bolt is more effecient.

I have done alot of research, for many years. I could explain crankwalk to you and WHY it happens to 7 bolt engines and not 6 bolts. Crankwalk issues aside, everyone knows a 2g 7 bolt will make more "bolt-on" horsepower than a infamous 6 bolt, because of compression ratio and VE.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have over 500 posts here. I do not spread unreliable information. I have been here since the beginning....check my username panel. I wouldn't even waste my time typing if "I" was aware my information was false. I only speak from experience and sound logic.


Now back to the original question......"Why are AWD 1G's and 2G's rated the same in the 1/4 when there are obvious differences in hp/tq and weight"?

This is actually pretty simple to clarify once you've read everyone elses replies.

2gs are slightly heavier, have slightly more advertised power, and a more effecient engine and exhaust components.

1gs weigh slightly less, have a bigger factory turbo and run more boost through smaller intercooler piping/intercooler, large volume intake runners and ports, and more restrictive exhaust components.

They equal and cancel each other out to the point that their performance is near equal.

1g's respond to mods very well but fall short on compression, and exhaust flow vs. a 2g.

If you were to start with a stock 1g and a stock 2g AWD, and add the same parts to each at the same time, the 2g would always be faster until it spun the thrust bearing, crowning the 6 bolt car the overall champion because it could keep on going while the 7 bolt is still broke down.

There's a really neat graph on vfaq.com that shows all the differences between the 1g and 2gs.

Here's the link:

http://www.darklightning.com/gi/1gvs2g.htm

Your Welcome.

gsxtacy

 

[Defiant]

If you were to start with a stock 1g and a stock 2g AWD, and add the same parts to each at the same time, the 2g would always be faster until it spun the thrust bearing,

If you spin a thrust bearing, it's going to be a helluva levee break.

 

[Gleason]

Do you mean a well balanced car as in it weighs about 200lbs more than it's 1st gen counterpart?

according to msn autos

92 talon tsi AWD M/T = 3108lbs
95 talon tsi AWD M/T = 3120lbs


msn autos also has this 1/4th time, and 0-60 listed for a 95 talon AWD.

0 - 60 Time --------------------------5.71
(seconds) 1/4 Mile Time ------------14.34
(seconds) 1/4 Mile Speed ----------94.50 mph

Eagle Talon TSi AWD - I4 2.0L turbo (210 hp) 5M (no ABS)

seems like it may have been a factory 'ringer', mixed with a good driver. still impressive none the less for a stock 2G.