What to say when taking a block to the machine shop

[Mcmuscle3]

Hey guys, I never have taken a block to a machine shop before. I do plan to do my first build with an extra motor I have a 6 block. I am currently at 400awhp. And I want my built motor to be 500. I have a bolt on hx35, I will either either put a bep t3 housing on it or go hx40 t3.

sorry to ramble. ANYWAYS.. what is recommended stuff to have a machine shop do? Bored and honed(what if a torque plate isnt available) polished crank, bearing clearances, resurfaced?

Thanks for any advice/input.!

 

[Breezio69]

A good machine shop should be able to take a micrometer to the crank and bores and tell YOU what you need done to the block.

Just make sure to get the block cleaned, tanked and inspected before you spend a bunch of money on it.

You'd check the bores, deck, take the head to check that as well, bore and hone is self explanitory to them, they will let you know if it even needs boring, or if you want it done regardless just take them your pistons and rings. If they are nice guys they will check all your ring gaps after they bore it and get everything ready to go for you.

If the crank checks out ok then you'd expect to spend about $200-$400 depending on exactly what you get done. If you need the crank turned and polished expect $100+ for that

 

[phr0st]

Bring all of your short-block parts(Pistons/Rods/Crank/ARP head and main studs).
Any reputable shop will have a torque plate even out where I live everything is SBC and modular fords and the shops have plates for the 4g63.

- Hot Tank Block
- Balance pistons and rods
- Deck Surface(NOT with a belt surface but a CNC machine)
- Bore and hone(per piston)
- Polish Crank
- Align hone with main studs

If you are going to have them assemble the short-block have them check all of the bearing clearances (not plastigauge).

These are the things I get done with every short-block I build(not just the 4g63). Others mileage may vary and some with say that some of these services aren't required especially if your goal is only 500whp.

 

[davidsdsm]

i asked my machinist and he said torque plating is not needed if your not boring out the cylinders. are you trying to hone it only? also make sure you take him the arp main studs and have him align hone the crank!

 

[Mcmuscle3]

thanks, Just got off the phone with local NAPA. He said it would be 80 for bore/honed,50 cleaning, 60 deck, 25 crank cleaned/polished and miked. For a total of 215 bucks. Not to bad, they do not have a 4g63 torque plate however.

NAPA said they like to use plastigauge. Reasons why not to use it?

 

[Awd-laser]

Also make sure they deck the top of the block, anytime you take the motor out it is recommended to have it decked.

 

[DogWhistle]

You've got the idea. The block needs to 'squared up', meaning you are looking for precision in two directions; vertically and horizontally.

Most people think of the cylinders for boring and honing, but forget about the crankshaft alignment. An out-of-alignment crank turning at 7k plus rpm, won't last long.

Bring the crank, head, pistons, rings, rods, and bearings with you. The shop will need these to make sure everything will fit correctly. If the shop does not have a torque plate, you are at the wrong shop. A good machinist may suggest you wait to purchase the bearings and pistons/rings until the machining is ready to begin so that the block can be custom matched to those components.

It is VERY important you tell the machinist how you plan to use this engine, as they have to account for heat expansion and oil tolerances under load.

Here is the list, maybe minus a step or two, that our machinist did on our latest 6-bolt engine:

* Bore and hone cylinders using torque plate / Set proper ring gap
* Align bore and hone block crank seats and rod ends with rod caps properly torqued
* Flat deck block AND head
* Polish crank journals (if not damaged beyond useful spec)
* Nitrite treat crank journals to restore hardness
* Check/resurface oil pan flange, oil pump flange, rear seal flange, etc.
* Hot tank the block, head, etc. to remove sludge and open oil passages

It's your engine. Don't take it to a shop that doesn't ask questions or want to listen to your answers.

 

[Mcmuscle3]

Hmm. I may have trouble finding a shop locally that does 4g63 regularly. Im kinda close to Bristol VA but im not having much luck

 

[NHerron]

Bogusvo oil port mod. Check out all his links. See if they will remove the oil plug balls in the crank. So it can be properly cleaned. I did not get that done, suppose I got lucky. You may not.

FWIW, I could not get ahold of a torque plate. Ended up not getting one when bored .020 over. I pulled the head 5k later (learned how to tune the hard way, detonated the engine pretty good pistons swelled and scuffed) and there was no abnormal distortion judging by the consistent scuffing caused by the constant detonation during WOT.

 

[Mcmuscle3]

interesting.. I do plan to upgrade internals. Prob use stock crank still, but pistons, rods, bearings, studs, will be the main upgrades to the bottom end. I plan to find second hand parts in good shape, so il see what 2014 has in store.

 

[boost97gst]

A shop with a torque plate is a bonus. I found one by pure luck. Someone on the insanely small local forum here :gatewaydsm.org suggested a tried and true machinist that actually has done many many 4gs and owns a torque plate. If i had the money i would ship my block to bogus in a heartbeat. That guy clearly is meticulous with his detail.
mcmuscle: the stock crank, if its not too far out of spec, will hold all the power you will put on it. Spend the extra $ on balancing since you're getting everything done. Less stress on every part of the rotating assembly and things will last longer at high rpm.

 

[Slowpokee]

From my personal experience, try to remove any if not every part attached.

I sent my block and heads to a shop who then sent it to a machine shop. When I got my block and heads back and all the attached parts were gone and I couldn't recover them. Apparently it pissed to machinist off so bad he tossed them. Even though he billed the shop.

The lesson learned is to be as specific as possible for the work you need done. Some shops will take a complete engine + parts and do all the work for you. Some will only do basic machining and have the parts sent elsewhere depending on your area.

Like boost97gst said, the balance will pay dividends and increase the life of the motor. Knife edging the crank can get the RPMs a little higher

 

[Archer Fabrications]

You can buy your own torque plate for $200 and bring it to the shop also if you plan to rebuikd more than one motor

Jmf makes em extreme psi sells em. I wouldnt trust a napa machinist.

 

[Mcmuscle3]

i really only plan to build one to be honest. So i can't see the point in buying it even if I do re-sell it. I just dont want that hassle.

 

[F_27stryker1]

If I take a 6 bolt block to a good machine shop, but one that sees maybe two 4g63's a year, should I be worried or trust in their word that they know what I want done

 

[BogusSVO]

What to say .... Simple "Fix it and call me when it's done." Yes there a few customers that tell me that.

Honestly tho

Block work

Clean block
Deck block .005 or less
Block oil mod
BSE Bearing flip
R&R Freeze plugs
Bore block - * Torque plate
Hone to set PTW
Check line bore if installing ARP main studs

Crank
remove oil galley balls
polish or grind as needed

Balance
take flywheel, crank, time belt gear, BS gear or spacer, Pressure plate, rods and pistons

Misc
VC to be cleaned
Oil pan to be cleand
Anything else you want cleaned

*Torque plate is the best most common method to distort the block and keep a round bore.
Now if the shop has it use it, if they do not, ask for additional .0005 -.001 on the PTW

 

[NHerron]

..Now if the shop has it use it, if they do not, ask for additional .005 -.001 on the PTW

How do you know when to go .001 or .005? It seems a bit broad considering that wiseco specifies to the half thousandths.

 

[BogusSVO]

How do you know when to go .001 or .005? It seems a bit broad considering that wiseco specifies to the half thousandths.

Sorry, that was a typo, I meant .0005 -.001

An extra .005 would be way too much on the PTW, it would also add .015 to ring end gap

 

[NHerron]

Phew, that would be a noisy engine haha.