What should I do next?

[MOTRAIN]

I have a 1999 GSX with 90k on her. This is going to be purely a fun car, just to rip around in on the streets. I am pretty happy with her so far but want to start thinking about the next step to take. I was thinking turbo maybe... but not sure if should do some other mods first...

So far I have done the following...
Greddy Boost Gauge
Hallman Boost Controller (currently running 1Bar)
Open K&N Filter
MSD Wires
Greddy HICP to cleaned stock side mount
Synapse Synchronic BOV
Meagan Racing Downpipe (No Cat)
Greddy PE Exhaust (modded so neck down section is removed)
DBA rotors & Hawk Brake Pads
ACT 2100 Clutch w/ SS line
Fidanza Flywheel
Eibach Pro Kit
KYB GR2 Shocks (already on car)

 

[njc1064]

A turbo is definitely an option to entertain. But, just remember, if your going to do it properly (assuming you choose something larger than the 14b), your likely going to need more fuel (injectors/pump) and a way to manage the injectors (safc/safc II, etc)

 

[MOTRAIN]

Is there anyway to get more out of the T25? Would adding a better fuel pump help?

 

[JayRolla]

Its time for fuel and timing control. If I was you I would go with dsmlink and if you cant afford it, then maybe greddy emanage or eprom editing. Emanage with the timing harness will give you timing control along with fuel control. Can be found for the same price as the safc or a little more and work 10 times better.

After that get a wbo2 so you can tune yourself and watch those AFR's. You will beable to get more out of any mod after once you get engine management.

 

[njc1064]

Truthfully, im not really sure how far the stock t25 will take you...Check out this link though, it has some good info on different turbos and some flow maps:

Turbo Comparison

I think if your considering a turbo upgrade, the common response will be to go with either the 14b or 16g. The 14b will be less expensive, thus, leaving you money for some fuel system upgrades. Also, the 14b flows somewhere between 10-15% more than the stock t25...

Here is a tech article on how to install the 14b in a 2g...It should give you an idea of what is needed and how to go about the swap.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...2558-14b-install-2g-homebrew-install-kit.html

 

[njc1064]

You will beable to get more out of any mod after once you get engine management.[/QUOTE]


I agree, some sort of engine management should be considered...Like i said earlier, once you start upgrading, you are going to need a way to take control of the car. Dsmlink might not be the best choice at this stage for you, but, it is worth considering. There are plenty of options that will be cheaper, yet, still effective with your setup

 

[MOTRAIN]

Hmm... maybe I should just do bolt on stuff like exhaust manifold and o2 housing or FMIC, tuning sounds above me and quite frankly scares me.

 

[u2slow]

Hmm... maybe I should just do bolt on stuff like exhaust manifold and o2 housing or FMIC, tuning sounds above me and quite frankly scares me.

If you go to a bigger turbo you will have to do this stuff anyway. The FMIC will look good too.

 

[MOTRAIN]

yeah thats what I was thinking... eventually I would like to get a little bigger streetable turbo maybe a small 16G or something but the idea of having to do tuning and stuff is overwhelming. Is it pretty difficult or with the right equipment is it fairly doable?

In this case what bolt-ons should I consider next?

 

[Brutal_r3drum]

i would start with a hard intake pipe... maybe a dejon tool... port your exhaust mani and o2 housing... and fmic.... i still would get a wide band just so you can see whats going on in the motor...

 

[cookmeup272]

Tuning is not as hard as it seems especially if you have the correct equipment. Wideband or EGT gauge is a must!

 

[njc1064]

If you go to a bigger turbo you will have to do this stuff anyway. The FMIC will look good too.

If he goes with a larger turbo he will need fuel mods (pump, rewire, injectors, fpr) and engine management well before he needs the FMIC. The FMIC, while nice to have, is not a necessity... Engine management is important. He will be able to identify and control knock, not to mention, tune for more power.

yeah thats what I was thinking... eventually I would like to get a little bigger streetable turbo maybe a small 16G or something but the idea of having to do tuning and stuff is overwhelming. Is it pretty difficult or with the right equipment is it fairly doable?

In this case what bolt-ons should I consider next?

Fuel mods are the vital!!! Without them, you wont be able to run that larger turbo anywhere near its efficieny range. On top of fuel mods, the best thing you can do for yourself is get some sort of logging software, whether it be a pocket logger, safcII, dsmlink, etc...At least you will have an idea of what your car is doing.

 

[Anger890]

If it were me, I would probably due the fuel pump rewire and an upgraded fuel pump next as they are relatively inexpensive at under $150 for both items.

I would second DSM link as a choice for engine mangement. Its a very powerful tool that makes tunning and trouble shooting MUCH easier.

After that, I would go for a Turbo upgrade and FMIC.

 

[Fejery4491]

Dsmlink Ftw

 

[pboglio]

It's not about bolting parts on. If you haven't noticed it already, the 2g ECU is very tricky to deal with. It'll pull timing on you for no reason, killing performance. I wouldn't slap another part on the car without running something like DSMLink. It'll clamp down the ECU, then from there you can adjust fuel, timing, injector deadtime, and datalog. It'll make the car alot more fun to drive and it'll be dead consistent, day in day out.

T25 only really needs a heavier duty wastegate actuator:
Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP DSM 17psi DSM T25/T28 Actuator

This'll make a big difference in spoolup and topend power output. Everybody bags on the T25 but it actually isn't a bad turbo with the boost cranked up to 18 psi. Very fun on the street, good for maybe 260-280 h.p.

My recommendation for bang for the buck and consistency is:

DSMLink/ECMlink
Fuel pump rewire
FP 17 psi T25/T28 wastegate actuator upgrade
Upgraded turbo intake pipe

 

[MOTRAIN]

Nice, thanks for the thoughts guys. I would like to get into the engine logging and tuning if its not rocket science. DSM Link is pricey but seems worth it, are there any other options to consider? If so what is the next best hing to DSM Link?

That HD actuator sounds pretty cool, will that allow the T25 to hold boost longer past 5k? Because I do like the quickness of this turbo on the street... it just wont hold 1Bar till red line.

 

[MOTRAIN]

Oh yeah I am confused, you have to do the FP rewire anyways even if you get a better fuel pump? If so why?

 

[pboglio]

Stock ECU = Stock fuel pump with rewire
DSMLink ECU = Upgraded fuel pump with rewire

Yes, the actuator will hold the boost longer, the turbo will hit much harder, and it'll spool faster. All good

 

[JayRolla]

Dont be scared about tuning. Just do a lot of research and read all the tuning posts you see. You will get the info you need, just weed out the crap. Its nice to beable to see at all times that your motor has a safe tune. I feel a lot safer knowing what timing I'm hitting, what afr, how much boost, how much detonation. All this stuff lets you know your motor will last a long time.

 

[Anger890]

Oh yeah I am confused, you have to do the FP rewire anyways even if you get a better fuel pump? If so why?

Yes, you need to rewire the fuel pump even with an upgraded pump. The reasoning is to supply a constant amount of voltage to the pump. The stock wiring is tiny and voltage tapers off as the RPMs increase. A fuel pumps output varies greatly with differing levels of voltage. Check out the linked chart.


RRE Instructions

Just look at the flow differnece in a Walbro 255 at 12.5 volts vs. 14 volts


DsmLink, really has no equal for the cost. The only comparable system with more capabilty is the AEM. V3 has the abilty to do almost everything a guy could want and still maintain stock like driveabilty.

 

[MOTRAIN]

Ok cool thanks for the info on the re-wire. I am seriously considering the FP actuator and FP intake pipe at this point. Seems like they would both be good fo my current setup.

 

[JayRolla]

Yes, you need to rewire the fuel pump even with an upgraded pump. The reasoning is to supply a constant amount of voltage to the pump. The stock wiring is tiny and voltage tapers off as the RPMs increase. A fuel pumps output varies greatly with differing levels of voltage. Check out the linked chart.


RRE Instructions

Just look at the flow differnece in a Walbro 255 at 12.5 volts vs. 14 volts


DsmLink, really has no equal for the cost. The only comparable system with more capabilty is the AEM. V3 has the abilty to do almost everything a guy could want and still maintain stock like driveabilty.

You dont have to rewire the pump. Im flowing 40lb/min on e85 on a stock wired 255lph fuel pump. Its needed when you run out of fuel. But not mandatory.

 

[DECODER22]

You dont have to rewire the pump. Im flowing 40lb/min on e85 on a stock wired 255lph fuel pump. Its needed when you run out of fuel. But not mandatory.

ya but on a lot of 1g's there is a huge voltage loss going to the pump check it with a meter you'll be very surprised, its always good to do a rewire so you know you have a constant strong voltage going to the pump and the cost of doing it is under $20