welcom me to the 300hp club!!!

[allgripnoslip]

A dozen or so guys from WMDSM set up a dyno day at AYA Racing in Grandville. $50 for 2-3 pulls. It was a mustang dyno and it read super low. before we left they were talking about setting up the next dyno session at another shop . http://wishihadatalon.proboards33.com/index.cgi
^WMDSM Boards

 

[staticbrainwash]

western michigan, grrrr, no one in mid-michigan set's up anything cool that i've found. Thanks for the link though!

 

[allgripnoslip]

Actually I was in school at Big Raids at the time. I drove down about an hour to Grandville. I live in Livonia which is close to Detroit. There are a few awd Dyno's in the Detroit area 8) ( we totally pwned this guy's thread)

 

[sweet97]

^ You are talking about the BHP #'s provided by the manufacturer. He's talking about whp #'s. My talon dyno'd at 143 awhp with an O2 dump, 1g bov and 14b at 15psi and everything else bone stock. Now converted to drivetrain loss I was making about 206 at the crank. Same dyno same day a guy with a 16g, fmic, pump, injectors and afc made 167 awhp. Plus this 300 whp is fwd in which there is half the loss through the drive train.

Thanks 14B Powa! I read the 140 somewhere and have a memory for numbers. I think I actually read 138whp. The accepted loss in a non-AWD is 18% and an AWD is about 22% loss. Remember on the street the cars you are walking on have the same power losses as you so that 5.0 Mustang of early 90's vintage had much less power than advertised and it probably weighs more. Here's some formula fun:
1. BHP=10.86x(lbs./min.) So if you are flowing say the small 16G's full 34.8lbs/min you are making 378HP. Not many guys are maxing their turbo's. You would need most every mod available. The 378HP with an 18% drivetrain loss would be around 310WHP. That's why I agreed with the poster who said not likely to the fellow asking if he could make the 300 club. If AWD then the WHP would be 295.

2. CFM=lbs/min of air flow divided by .069
Take the small 16G again. Rated at 505CFM. Again it's max flow of 34.8lbs/min. divided by .069=504 CFM. Rather close. I have one for HP that I will get a link for.

3. If you have ever been to a track and remember your time or trap speed go here. www.speedworldmotorplex.com
about halfway down on the left side of the screen is a link for HP estimator. Remember it's a rough guide to let you see what HP you may be making. Mark
For the fellow who asked about the 300 club and his mod list there is a guy here on tuners who with 289whp did low 12's on the 14B! Race gas, great driving and maybe a weight loss led to a great time for that HP.

 

[staticbrainwash]

Holy sh!t, awesome info! thanks a lot!

I do have one question though i never understood. When people talk about a (for example) a DP making an extra 15(ish)hp, does that mean to the wheels or crank. (I know this may be bench racing of sorts, but im just curious how i could maybe estimate some #'s outside of this base 140whp.)

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Any horsepower number (unless backed with dyno charts) is a guess based on CHP.

 

[staticbrainwash]

Thanks! i never really knew what those #'s pertained to. So it looks like estimates aside once i rebuild my motor and break her in, im going to be looking for an AWdyno in michigan. Doesn't TRE have one?

 

[sweet97]

Geoff it's not really bench racing as you have a certain HP goal and need accurate info to reach that goal. Both this forum and the Buschur forum have stages of mods to reach estimated HP and et numbers. One thing to remember is that you can't add the numbers suppliers clainm and have them reach 100HP and expect that to haoppen though it could. It is the proper combination of parts that will assist you in reaching your goals. The motor is an air pump, flow more air and make more power with the right amount of good fuel, etc. www.turbochargers.com is selling true Mitsu Heavy industries EVO III turbo's for $459. Great price and they flow more than the regular big 16G though they are both rated at 550cfm at 15psi. The big 16G can flow about 38lbs/min. The EVO has flowed 42lbs/min, maybe 1 or 2 lbs more. Then as you mentioned a downpipe. If the manufacturer has dyno proof then it's at the wheels but often it's crank HP. Add a good 3" turbo cack exhaust with that EVO turbo and you may gain lets say, 100Hp with a good port and ported o2 housing. The stock 14B flows 28lbs/min. Adding the turbo alone according to the formula should add 100hp but renmember the combination. If the exhaust from the turbo can't get out quick enough you will not make that power so the exhaust is needed. And so on. My turbo is said to be able to make 650HP. It flows 70lbs/min according to Bullseye. However their turbine housing is restrictive. They used 650hp in the ad simply using some math, not dyno proof. If I continue I will begin rambling on. Check out the specified paths to making power that are offered here and at the www.buschurracing.com forums. Choose a turbo or a HP level you would like to reach and find guys with similar turbo's or mods and ask questions. Most are happy to help. Sending you a PM. Mark

 

[TurboAWDKID]

ok ok. i just read all of these posts, and i do agree, for the most part. 140hp on stock 4g63t motor, never heard of it. my gvr4 engine was rebuilt by buschur to there stage 1 specs, kudos to staticbrainwash for seeing that. that being said, with a fresh buschur stage 1 long block, s16g, and the rest of my mods which were all done in the past 2 months and running 18 psi, i dont see how i cant be running close to 300hp. i know my 1g mas is a major restriction, eventhough mine is hacked, and i plan to upgrade to the gm maf/maft setup soon. i will be getting an afpr soon also, along with injectors, as i am running a little rich, which would be expected. maybe i will be disapointed with the numbers i put down on the dyno, who knows, but dam*it my car pulls hard as hell right no, so either way im happy. thanks to those who put all those hp numbers into perspective.

p.s. I no longer see the point in trying to figure any of this out unitl i have dynoed my car, it is the only way to truely know

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

i dont see how i cant be running close to 300hp.

You are not making anywhere near 300awhp. No way, no how, unless Buschur sprinkled magic pixie dust in it while he was building it.

Like I said before, your car is borderline stock.

Edit : For reference, DSMLink estimates my power at 267awhp, and that is with everything in my profile, flowing 32 lbs/min or air, at 16 PSI.

 

[underradar92]

Great info guys. I'm bloody chafed to find out my s16g won't likely throw 300 hp to the ground though. Oh well. It's still a fun car.

 

[GreddyGst]

Allgripnoslip - Take your car to a dynojet, then your car should dyno 180 or so. Mustang dyno is too accurate unlike Dynojet which isn't accurate and is great use for dyno tuning only but not for dyno numbers unless you want to kid yourself.

 

[allgripnoslip]

nah I just wanted to get some kind of a baseline to see what I was looking at so when I get my full setup I can see how much power I've gained. Also, The shop owner told me there was a 40% loss on the dyno? He was foreign and I wasnt sure if he meant drivetrain, drivetrain and dyno or dyno loss?? He also said that there was all sorts of loads put on the car like wind resistance that was added to the dyno's calculation and weight of the car as well. So basically this was a very close to real-world dynoing. This was when my car was running rich as hell because of a dead O2. Hes a very knowledgeable fellow and he had all these local rally races playing on the big screen while he got the dyno set up too. AYARacing.com for those of you interested. He always welcomes dyno days for car clubs.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

This was when my car was running rich as hell because of a dead O2.

O2 doesn't matter at WOT

 

[allgripnoslip]

ahh well he told me to lean it out because I was running rich because he had the wideband in my tail pipe and I was like ummm I dont have any fuel control...

 

[red_gsx]

TurboAWDKid- Believe everyone on here who's telling you you're not making 300whp. I looked at the mods and they're pretty much the same except for very minor differences. I got the s16g and when I did my baseline run at Extreme Motorsports I had about 200 at the wheels. After tuning they reached what you see on my profile now. I'm running at 17psi so like I said we're pretty much in the same boat. Take it to the dyno and you'll see.

 

[GSntncT]

when I did my baseline run at Extreme Motorsports

The one in Odenton, Maryland? that's a hell of a drive for that.

 

[sweet97]

TurboAWDKID said it right when he said his car pulled like heck and he was having fun driving it and GreddyGST showed what real tuning can do, AEM AES, very expensive but he's putting down over 400HP. My car is an underachiever but I still enjoy the heck out of it myself and am determined to at least get it to it's full potential with what it has this season. Full Garret is the way to go. Hybrid turbines like mine are restrictive but like I said I enjoy it and will get it to it's full potential. mark
Moral, don't worry about the numbers but if they are important to you then GreddyGST showed what a DSM can do and it would not require the expense of the AEM to do it. Check out www.dsmtimes.org you will be amazed with the numbers and some give their set-ups, at least the basics. Just click on the little icon nest to their name for the car's info.

 

[keltalon]

wow

 

[GSntncT]

Very impressive numbers no doubt. I hope to be within that area after I turn my boost back up.

 

[red_gsx]

The one in Odenton, Maryland? that's a hell of a drive for that.

Haha nah I didn't just drive there for a dyno. I'm originally from rockville md and when my eclipse got back from hawaii it came to maryland and I had it done then. Then I took it up here to ny for school.

 

[GreddyGst]

TurboAWDKID said it right when he said his car pulled like heck and he was having fun driving it and GreddyGST showed what real tuning can do, AEM AES, very expensive but he's putting down over 400HP. My car is an underachiever but I still enjoy the heck out of it myself and am determined to at least get it to it's full potential with what it has this season. Full Garret is the way to go. Hybrid turbines like mine are restrictive but like I said I enjoy it and will get it to it's full potential. mark
Moral, don't worry about the numbers but if they are important to you then GreddyGST showed what a DSM can do and it would not require the expense of the AEM to do it. Check out www.dsmtimes.org you will be amazed with the numbers and some give their set-ups, at least the basics. Just click on the little icon nest to their name for the car's info.

Yeah, tuning is key. I'm still on the stock 7bolt motor with 113,xxx miles since 1997 factory. Doing 404whp Mustang dyno, could of gotten higher numbers but because my motor is not built I decided to stop and enjoy the 400. It never knocked once Our motor can hold the power just make sure your compression is good.

 

[Mark90gst]

140 to 160 sounds right, ive seen hundreds of dsm dnyo form completly sotck to race cars making well into the 700hp mark, stock dsm uselly make 140 to 160 and the fwd ones only make a little more, been there seen more than once, thats all they make guys sorry to dissapoint anyone. it is true.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

Edit : For reference, DSMLink estimates my power at 267awhp, and that is with everything in my profile, flowing 32 lbs/min or air, at 16 PSI.

I wouldn't go by DSMLinks guess on your power. Mine was telling me alittle over 270 at the motor when in reality i put down 317 awhp and 287 awtq on the exact same boost and tune. Of course i may not have had something set up right. But i'm rather sure i did.

 

[GSX_RCR]

you can now welcome me to the 300hp club and this was done with


stock catback
stock side mount
stock upper intercooler pipe

Be honest, did you dump the exhaust after the downpipe or O2?