Water still mixing in oil...HELP!

[cudadrt]

Have been through countless posts and all lead to having head checked and milled. The first head I had on it was a 1G that I bought already done and was said to be surfaced but it wasn't smooth...looked like someone used a cheese grater on the finish. This lead to coolant leaking out all around the head so I got another 1G head and had it checked for cracks and machined flat. I reinstalled the head on my 95 Talon TSi 7 bolt block with a 3 layer MLS Cometic HG with ARP head studs and a light coat of copper spray on both sides of the gasket torqued to 85 ft./lbs. I have changed the oil twice now and still getting coolant mixing with the oil. I read on one post from a few years ago that it could possibly be the oil cooler but most posts I read about the cool said that oil would be in the coolant and I have no oil in the coolant...just coolant in the oil. I change the oil and run it for about a half hour a day and then a couple days after that and check and slowly see signs of coolant getting in the oil. Is it possible to be getting coolant in the oil from the cooler? I have a 6 bolt 90 air-to-oil cooler housing that I was wondering if I could use on the 7 bolt block? Also how many times changing my oil would it take to possibly get all the coolant out in the case that it's just left over coolant from the previous head? Car is apart as it's about to get painted but driving it up and down the road a short ways it seems to run strong. Compression is also good at about 170-175 across all cylinders. Any help would be greatly appreciated and I greatly thank you.

P.S. In case you missed the beginning...the head has been checked for cracks and milled flat and all good. Also have a "NEW" HG with new arp studs. This is driving me insane and really want to get this remedied.

 

[anteversion]

It could be bad turbo seals. I'm not very familiar with those kind of head gasket but i don't think it was a great idea to spray some gasket stuff on it, unless it was recommended by the company. ANd do you have your block milled to?? its great to have a milled head but if your block is not, your head will not seat better on it than if she were not milled. aluminum head will pry and stretch under the load of the head studs but the block won't feel it at all

 

[cudadrt]

The block wasn't milled but didn't have any problems with the 2G head. The turbo is a new 50 trim turbo and isn't water cooled so that would rule out the turbo. I re-routed the coolant lines for the stock turbo to basically loop itself back into the cooling system. Not sure why the block wouldn't be flat since aluminum gives more than steel. If it would be the block then I don't understand why it didn't do it before the head swap. As for the copper spray on the gasket, it was recomended by a few DSM people local here as a trick to make sure proper seal. Any ideas as to possibly the oil cooler housing? Any ideas as to what would make the block deck to not be flat? Thanks for the reply.

Dwayne

 

[anteversion]

The block wasn't milled but didn't have any problems with the 2G head. The turbo is a new 50 trim turbo and isn't water cooled so that would rule out the turbo. I re-routed the coolant lines for the stock turbo to basically loop itself back into the cooling system. Not sure why the block wouldn't be flat since aluminum gives more than steel. If it would be the block then I don't understand why it didn't do it before the head swap. As for the copper spray on the gasket, it was recomended by a few DSM people local here as a trick to make sure proper seal. Any ideas as to possibly the oil cooler housing? Any ideas as to what would make the block deck to not be flat? Thanks for the reply.

Dwayne

Yes if your turbo is not water cooled, thats not the prob. But do you had a mlsHG with the 2g head?? Since the block can have 10-12-even 15 years consistent hot/cold conditions during driving and not, the block may not be as flat as it was supposed to be as new.

 

[cudadrt]

It had a stock gasket and yes now has a mls hg. Fisrt time fooling with a 4 cylinder....not had this problem with any v-8's......are the 4 cylinder blocks softer to allow more distortion?

 

[anteversion]

MLS gasket need Both the block and the Head to be milled because those gaskets are more thin tnah the OEM and are not allowing some wave between the head and block to be tolerate.IMO Thats why you've got coolant in the oil.

 

[cudadrt]

So would I be better off then to just pull out the mls hg and go back with a stock hg?

 

[cudadrt]

Also what would max boost levels be with a stock hg? I'm looking to push between 20-25 lbs of boost.

 

[anteversion]

Of course, it will be a lot less work to just swap the HG than to completely disassemble the engine block to have it milled. stock HG is capable of holding 20+ psi. look at this link
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/127426-amount-boost-stock-head-gasket.html

 

[cudadrt]

Guess I'll get a stock hg this weekend and swap it out. I'll hold onto the cometic until I do the 6bolt build. Thanks for your replies and help. That link definately answered the boost question. I knew studs were a must for anything over 20 lbs and decided to go with the cometic gasket as id used it on my mustang with great success even though I didn't have the block decked. Thought it'd work here as well but oh well....you live and learn. Thanks again.

Dwayne

 

[MrBoxx]

Check your oil cooler housing. If the filter was put on too tightly last time, it may have crushed the sandwiches inside, allowing oil to mix with coolant. This has been the cause of many misdiagnosed head gasket jobs. If you've got a spare 90 oil filter housing AND air/oil cooler, now would be the time to put it on.

 

[black_gst]

i think you block surface would look pretty bad if you are getting water in you oil. and cometic HG are pretty good. i use them on my cars and swaped heads and never had to get the block resurfaced. also arp head studs should be torqued to 95-100lbs if im not mistaken and did you torque in the right order?

 

[rbwtrans]

Your 6-bolt oil filter housing will not work on your 7. You can bypass the oil cooler to tell if that's your problem.

 

[cudadrt]

Yes I do have a 90 oil cooler and housing...will this bolt straight up to the 7 bolt block in place of the existing housing without any modification?


As for the ARP studs...I used the torque sequence and specs in the manual.....would assume that they would be the same for the studs as well but if not then I'll try loosening them and redoing them again. The deck on the block looks great and the cylinder walls are remarkably smooth and still can see the factory honeing and almost no carbon ridge at the top of the cylinder wall like you would on a v-8. I guess not bad for 114k miles. I'll also try swapping out the oil cooler housing with the 90 model one I have and then if still not better than I will try the hg swap for the stock hg. Thanks for furhter info on the oil cooler housing and the stud torque spec. I'll post back sometime this weekend and let everyone know how it goes. Thanks again to all who replied as it's been very helpful.

 

[cudadrt]

Your 6-bolt oil filter housing will not work on your 7. You can bypass the oil cooler to tell if that's your problem.

So I don't have to have the coolant lines running to the oil cooler? I can just plug them and not worry about it and see if that helps?

 

[rbwtrans]

Loop the outlets on the oil cooler together and then run the two coolant outlets together. The 93 - 94 AWD had a 7 bolt with an air to oil cooler. Maybe you can find one of those.

 

[cudadrt]

Loop the outlets on the oil cooler together and then run the two coolant outlets together. The 93 - 94 AWD had a 7 bolt with an air to oil cooler. Maybe you can find one of those.

I was wondering abou tthat...I wasn't sure if running the coolant lines were needed so I hooked them up. I'll try bypassing the lines tomorrow and change the oil again. Will post back. Thanks again for the help.


Dwayne

 

[b_c]

I know this is old but close to the same prob I'm having now. Just wondering Dwayne if you ever figured out the prob? I've got tons of water in my oil but not smoking at all. Hate to replace the hg if that's not it. 97 gst by the way. Thanks