Varying Clutch Engagement [Merged 1-9] bleeding air floor stuck grinding

[BoostInsideTSi]

Okay, folks, for some unknown reason, we're now getting three threads a week started about clutch malfunctions.
The usual cause is that the system hasn't been properly bled.

Have at it.

I put in a used, but in good condition master cylinder, to replace the one I had before with a broken rubber seal. I did not bleed any components, I simply took out the old one, and bolted the new one up. Then I proceeded to fill the reservoir with dot 3 brake fluid. Bubbles rose to the top of the reservoir, then I topped it off after the fluid ran down into the system. I looked at the clutch pedal and noticed it was still sitting on the floor. I tried pulling it up off the floor, but it only went up a few inches. Probably some adjusting that needs to be done with the rod is causing that. Anyway when I pull it up there is quite a bit of resistance, where when I let go the pedal just pulls right back to the floor. I've heard there is a vacuum going on, where with air in the system, it is just pulling that sucker right back. I tried pumping the crap out of the pedal with a friend opening the bleeder valve and I just shoot clutch fluid everywhere.. I Stop after about 50 pumps and put more fluid and keep going, but notice no improvement. Does anyone know what I need to do? Can anyone verify it is the air in the system causing my problem? Thank you,
Mike

 

[ryan90]

slave and master are in. I gravity bled it for like 10 minutes and have gone through at least 6 oz. of fluid bleeding it. I had the adjustment rod moved all the way out of the pedal and now i am working it in.

I could have sworn the rod held the pedal by only a few threads. And now this one is starting to show through the nut on the back side.

how much are your guys' adjustment rods threaded into the pedal hardware.

it's not disengaging the clutch FYI. the pedal begins to grab at the bottom but doesn't enough to start the car w/o moving it.

keep threading the rod into the pedal or do I need to bleed some more??

 

[toofast82]

you need to do more than gravity bleed it! I would start out with the threads not going through other side and go from there. On a new slave and master, youll need a lot of actual bleeding

 

[ryan90]

I am going to purge the slave according to RRE and then bleed it some more. (not gravity way) then I am going to move the rod halfway into the pedal and back it out from there.

 

[90TalonDDH]

Thanks for the info fellas am going to replace the master cylinder will let you know if it fixes problem.

 

[Tyeler18]

i had this problem the other day in my tiburon, it might be that the clutch forks have slipped off and need to be put back on, im not sure what was wrong with mine because the pressure came back after i let it sit for a few hours, but the slave cylinder could have a leak in it causing pressure loss.

 

[ryan90]

okay so i bled again like 5 times pumped the shit out of it then bled one more time. same. Only fluid is coming out and has been for a while.

then started adjusting the rod and it felt better lengthing it by turning it out of the petal. well. it starts without lurching and idles without moving the car. still grabs low. okay. keep turning the way i was. nope.... the rod came out of the pedal.

am i missing something?? or keep bleeding?

 

[ryan90]

alright

i am fustrated. I can swap whole motors and transmissions in other types of cars but I cannot figure this out.

The clutch feels just like it did before replacing everything. It has pressure but engages at the floor.

new slave and master. the master rod is as far out as it possibly can go and it's still the same.

Gravity bled it. then me and my friend bled it 5 times, then me and my lil bro bled it 5 times, then my and my dad bled it 15 times. nothing but fluid is flowing.

I am bleeding it with the resevoir cap off, the clutch pressed. then loosen and tighten the bleeder screw real quick. I was hearing quiet squishy fart-ish noises but seeing no air bubbles. All the lines look fine and the only thing moving with the clutch is the slave moving the arm.

 

[toofast82]

try it with the cap on!

 

[ryan90]

i have!!!

I was starting to think i had the master adjusted out too far closing the bleeder valve.... but I can push the slave in still though too.

I am fustrated beyond belief. I dont think it needs bled b/c it does not get any better by pumping it either.

 

[toofast82]

how about the clutch fork, how does it sit by the slave? it should be about halfway. they have a tendency of bending. could be the clutch pedal itself is going bad.

 

[ryan90]

relative to the hole in the trans and the boot, the shift fork is in the middle in a neutral looking position.

I think it could be my pedal assembly... i have no idea how to check it tho

push the petal and watch the spring thing under the gas pedal and see how far I gotta move before the spring moves??

I also have a SS line coming in but the stock one looks fine though.

 

[toofast82]

I think there was a thread on it somewhere in this site. but go under the dash and theres a large spring by the pedal. push the pedal with your hand and see at what point it begins to move the spring. It happens in 1gs, not sure of 2gs. I had to replace one before and it is a pita.

 

[ryan90]

aight running outside now.

Thanks for the fast replies btw. I appreciate it.

Never had anything woop my ass before like this.

 

[ryan90]

pedal is fine. moves the second I touch it.

I am so confused.....

edit**

Clutch Pedeal Adjustment - Team Rip Engineering

according to that it it is though..... never had problems until now though which is weird.

 

[toofast82]

yeah if the spring is moving right away when you touch it slowly, then its good. what kind of clutch and flywheel are in the car? you may need a longer clutch rod or shim the pivot ball

 

[ryan90]

as far as I know stock

When i got the car it was grinding and engaged at the floor and showed symptoms of bad clutch assembly.

I backed the adjustment rod out and bam. engagement was awesome and assembly seemed fine.

if the rod is turned back into the master the whole pedal drops and I can raise it and it will sit there.

I am baffled though how a clutch assembly just goes bad out of the blue.

 

[toofast82]

"I backed the adjustment rod out and bam. engagement was awesome and assembly seemed fine.

if the rod is turned back into the master the whole pedal drops and I can raise it and it will sit there. "

So if you adjust it to where it used to be good, your pedal is no good and its grinding, but you have some pressure?

 

[ryan90]

no. I backed the rod out like 4 months ago and had a nice engaging clutch until yesterday....

I am saying that the TRE site says to turn the rod into the master and if it can be raised it's bad.... my car was like that when i first bought it before i adjusted it.

the way it sits now the pedal doesn't move up any and the spring moves right away.

I don't get pressure until the last 1/4 of the pedal, the pedal as a hole has pressure until the last 1/4 then the pressure is greater and you can hear the slave engage.

I think I may still have an air bubble..... hard to believe. maybe I am purging the slave wrong?

 

[roc11111]

Definitely sounds like a bad master cylinder.

 

[ryan90]

fixed!!


for the archives....

follow the TRE's way

How to Bleed a Hydraulic Clutch - Team Rip Engineering

be sure to purge the slave. That's what got me. i forgot to do it then could not hold the slave still. instead of opening the valve, pushing the slave, then the pedal. Just open the valve and push the slave in by hand. Close valve. I had a nice air pocket in there. no pedal pushing.

I also removed the restrictor in the slave. I have to say the overall pedal movement is smoother. Before it had points where it wanted to sit for a second as if it was kinked or something. now it is constant pressure against your foot. not increased pressure. steady. Which makes it feel so much smoother. I noticed that the gears shift nicer too but that could be from my bum master also.

thanks toofast82 for your help and patience... i feel like a nutcase..... when i purged the slave the last two times.... it gave out a nice fart and I was like.... you have GOT to be kidding. well.... i said it much more graphically.

I am installing the SS line when it gets here and I know the tricks to properly bleed a clutch now

 

[DeNoZZo]

So my car developed this strange problem sometime a few months ago where I would step on the clutch, and the pressure reading on my prosport gauge would jump up or down about 10 psi. I made a post about it on here with no avail. So I just drove the car like normal, and haven't had any problems whatsoever yet. I had to pull my tranny a few weeks ago to replace the throw out bearing. Got that all back together and noticed that it still spiked when I pressed the clutch. Now a few days ago I decide to re-adjust my clutch because it had been engaging right off the floor. I re-adjusted it and it worked fine when I tested it. I go to leave for work a few hours later, and I can hardly get the car in gear. I had to pump that thing at least 5 times, and then still, it was lurching with my foot hard on the clutch in gear. I get home from work that night with a swollen left calf. The next day I bleed the clutch, and tinker with the adjustment some more. Now it worked perfectly. It engaged right about in the middle of pedal travel and had just the right amount of pressure. Then I noticed something very strange. My oil pressure no longer responded to clutch movement at all. Now for some reason, my clutch is back to engaging at the point before I did anything to it. Right about an inch off the floor. The engagement point is very inconsistent, and it seems like it depends on how much I pump the clutch. I am thinking that my master/slave is bad, and thats whats causing this weird engagement. And I plan on replacing those as well as getting an ss line too. But my question is, why would my oil pressure suddenly quit responding to clutch movement completely? This has me stumped. It never caused any problems or had any side-affects.
WTF

 

[toofast82]

congrats and happy launching!

 

[roc11111]

Is the clutch fully dis-engaging?

 

[jking29]

Have you checked your crankshaft endplay? I hate to be the one to bring up the "C" word, but if your oil pressure is jumping around when you hit the clutch, I would definitely want to check it.

 

[DeNoZZo]

For some reason, I don't think you read my post completely through.

Yes, the clutch is now fully dis-engaging. But it has somehow re-adjusted itself back to engaging 1-2 inches off the floor, or sometimes more. It's really inconsistent depending on how much I pump it.

And I have thought about c-walk, but why the spiking oil pressure would just go away one day. And before it went away, I had driven it like that for 4 months with no problems whatsoever.