USB (Palm Tungsten E) PDA 2g logger

[kenamond]

I have a Palm Tungsten E that I'd like to use as a logger. It has a USB hotsync cable (no docking station capability), but the Multiplex Engineering T16-003 interface has a DB9 serial connector.

I found a few posts relating to the Tungsten E, but they were a bit old and ominous . One had several posts which reported that this PDA was not supported. The other listed the woes of the individual who could not get his Tungsten E to work. I'm no computer hardware expert, so I don't know if you can convert USB to serial.

Has anyone had success or know of someone who has had success with this PDA or other newer USB PDAs?

I guess I'll also email Multiplex Engineering and see if they can shed light on this.

Thanks!

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I have a Palm Tungsten E that I'd like to use as a logger. It has a USB hotsync cable (no docking station capability), but the Multiplex Engineering T16-003 interface has a DB9 serial connector.

I found a few posts relating to the Tungsten E, but they were a bit old and ominous . One had several posts which reported that this PDA was not supported. The other listed the woes of the individual who could not get his Tungsten E to work. I'm no computer hardware expert, so I don't know if you can convert USB to serial.

Has anyone had success or know of someone who has had success with this PDA or other newer USB PDAs?

I guess I'll also email Multiplex Engineering and see if they can shed light on this.

Thanks!

I know that the Tungsten E will not work with PocketLoggers, whether the situation is the same for the Multiplex Engineering interface, I don't know.

Serial can be converted to USB though, and that's your only option if you want to use this Palm. You can buy a USB-Serial converter cable for under $20 at most tech/office supply stores.

http://www.usbgear.com/USB-Serial.html

 

[wret]

I have no problem using OBD Gauge with a HP pocket pc. The palms, including tungsten, will work according to the designer.

Edit: whoops. Nevermind. I just noticed the designer specifically mentions the "E" is incompatible.

 

[kenamond]

Well, I emailed the Palm'n'Stein developer, and he replied, "I think your palm is a little too advanced for this software...", which doesn't sound definitive, but doesn't sound promising, either.

Pocketlogger doesn't support it.

OBD gauge doesn't support it.

Kinda sucks; the fact that my PDA is more modern makes it incompatible with all of these loggers.

DSMLink sounds attractive, but I don't have the EPROM ECU, so that would be an expensive solution.

Sounds like my cheapest bet is to buy a refurb Palm M100 or similar, the T16-003 interface, and Palm'n'Stein. Maybe $130.

For now, I just want to be able to monitor potential problems when I put my FP Big T28 on without any other mods (other than porting the exhaust manifold and O2 housing and maybe swapping in a 1G BOV). I'll leave it at the stock boost for starters. I think that Palm'n'Stein will be sufficient for doing all of my Stage 1 upgrades.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Sounds like my cheapest bet is to buy a refurb Palm M100 or similar, the T16-003 interface, and Palm'n'Stein. Maybe $130.

Bah! I made my own interface that uses Digimoto (but OBD Gauge is compatible too) with an m100 for under $80. If you want color, then get the IIIc on eBay for under $75. I hate how these companies are selling such a simple circuit for so much money.

 

[kenamond]

Thanks!

The Palm'n'Stein site says that you need to T16-003 interface which costs $82. It also says that you can't make your own interface for a 2G DSM (but says that you can for a 1G DSM). I'm not saying that it is impossible to make an equivalent interface for a slightly older palm w/ Palm'n'Stein for a 2G DSM, but if it cost you "under $80" to make your own, I'm wondering if the time it'll take me to make it and the risk of it not working with Palm'n'Stein outweigh the possibility of saving a few bucks in my opinion.

If you are confident in this hand-made interface and have a schematic, I'd be willing to price it out and, depending on the cost, build one. I imagine that someone could tear open a T16-003 and reverse engineer it and post a schematic, but something tells me that this might be illegal.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Their website is wrong. While there is a DIY 1G cable, there is also a DIY interface you can make for a 2G. It is OBDII based (obviously) and not very difficult to make. As for the legality, well, the interfaces I make use the ELM based architecture. The company that makes this chip (Elm Electronics), like many other semiconductor manufacturers, include several schematics of "typical applications" in their data sheets. This is public information, so long as you buy their chips - nothing illegal or immoral there.

I put in the design time to make a compact and functional circuit board layout, so that's all taken care of if you wish to do things exactly as I did. The parts are also relatively easy to find (most are available at your local Radio Shack). There are only a few components that are harder to find (510ohm resistors, two 20pF capacitors, and a 3.579545mHZ crystal) - but they're not impossible to source, and if you cannot find them locally, I have several available.

Here is a picture of the latest interface I made (sorry about the picture quality, all I had was my phone) and a modified schematic that I used. I'll post a tech article on it when I get some more time (soon, I hope).

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Serial can be converted to USB though, and that's your only option if you want to use this Palm. You can buy a USB-Serial converter cable for under $20 at most tech/office supply stores.

http://www.usbgear.com/USB-Serial.html

By the way, I retract this statement. According to OBD Gauge's website, USB/Serial converters were designed to be used with computers and not PDAs. I honestly don't know why this means it wouldn't work with a PDA (maybe something specific to the architecture of a HotSync cable?).

In either case, I can't definitively say it will or won't work without personally testing it - so you may be out of luck as far as your PDA goes unless you decide to be a guinea pig and test a converter.

You could always pick up an m100 on eBay for $20 or get a IIIc for a little more. It could be your "logging palm" that you mount in your car so you can still use your Tungsten for other things.

 

[T is for TURBO]

wow... all I can say is... You are a smart fellow

 

[VelocitàPaola]

wow... all I can say is... You are a smart fellow

Hehe, thanks.

 

[wret]

There are serial convertors available for specific PDA's. I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all. I bought a cable for my HP that has the data conector to the hand-held, a serial connector, a USB connector (not used) and a power connector. There may be a similar adaptor available for your Tungsten.

 

[kenamond]

VelocitàPaola: Major thanks! One thing I must say is, "the internet is a marvelous thing!" I don't have enough reputation points yet to give you any, but I would if I could. I imagine that you'll get plenty when you finish the tech article, though.

I'm one of those "buy the top-of-the-line if I can afford it" guys, so I'll probably spring for the IIIc. Then I'll make my own cable so that I can tell my wife that I'm trying to save money.

wret: The conclusion of my experience with this situation is that you can't use a USB-port-enabled-PDA with Palm'n'Stein, Pocketlogger, or OBD Gauge. The latter two say so explicitly (well, Pocketlogger's site does, and you stated that OBD Gauge didn't support it), and I got an email from Matthew Szabaga (from the Palm'n'Stein site) telling me that Palm'n'Stein doesn't work with it. In addition, Richard O'Brien at Multiplex Engineering suggested that I just buy an older, refurb-ed Palm with serial port. All I can figure is that USB PDAs use a different protocol than Serial, so it's not just a rewiring issue, but a datastream translation issue.

Anyway, necessity is the mother of invention: I need a logger, so I'll invent an interface (or first try to track down the parts) and buy a refurb'ed, compatible PDA (via eBay). I learned alot in the process, so that's just fine by me.

 

[kenamond]

Oh, my FP Big T28 turbo arrived today. I tried explaining the concept of a turbocharger to my 3.99726 year-old daughter (birthday party tomorrow), but the most she got from it was, "Daddy's car is gonna be FASTER! I won't be able to lift my head off of my seat!!" I'll give her a couple more years and try again. Yep, she'll be reading compressor maps in no time.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I don't have enough reputation points yet to give you any, but I would if I could.

Aww... that's ok, I'll wait for you to get some more points.

All I can figure is that USB PDAs use a different protocol than Serial, so it's not just a rewiring issue, but a datastream translation issue.

I think that's the case also.

Anyway, necessity is the mother of invention: I need a logger, so I'll invent an interface (or first try to track down the parts) and buy a refurb'ed, compatible PDA (via eBay). I learned alot in the process, so that's just fine by me.

That's the way to do it! I was actually trying to incorporate a USB converter into the design, but they're surprisingly complex.

Anyway, I'm working on the article now. I should be done by tomorrow, so look forward to that. Good luck with everything.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Oh, my FP Big T28 turbo arrived today. I tried explaining the concept of a turbocharger to my 3.99726 year-old daughter (birthday party tomorrow), but the most she got from it was, "Daddy's car is gonna be FASTER! I won't be able to lift my head off of my seat!!" I'll give her a couple more years and try again. Yep, she'll be reading compressor maps in no time.

Lol, that's about the same response I got when I tried explaining the concept to my fiancé.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Anyway, I'm working on the article now. I should be done by tomorrow, so look forward to that. Good luck with everything.

Done...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1814498

 

[kenamond]

Done...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1814498

Awesome! Do you know if this will also work with Palm'n'Stein? If it will, you might want to email Matthew Szabaga ([email protected]) and have him add a hyperlink on his TunerStein site to your tech article.

Now we just have to find a PDA-knowledgeable programmer to figure out Serial vs USB ports and write a USB/PDA datalogger app

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Awesome! Do you know if this will also work with Palm'n'Stein? If it will, you might want to email Matthew Szabaga ([email protected]) and have him add a hyperlink on his TunerStein site to your tech article.

Now we just have to find a PDA-knowledgeable programmer to figure out Serial vs USB ports and write a USB/PDA datalogger app

I believe the TunerStein family of software will only work with the Multiplex Engineering interfaces. I know that several programs (like OBD Gauge) offer support for both Multiplex and Elm type interfaces though; so maybe it wouldn't be too difficult to make Palm'n'Stein adaptable.