turning crankshaft with timing belt off - 6-bolt

[pgt1996]

To all,

I am reading up about changing the timing belt on my 6-bolt motor and had a question concerning the crankshaft moving while trying to loosen the cranshaft pulley bolt. I imagine the crankshaft is going to move (from past experience on changing timing belts on non-interference motors) when I either bump the starter to loosen this bolt, or use a strap wrench to loosen this bolt, but the timing belt change procedure on the vfaq site warns against the crankshaft moving with the timing belt off. (http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html) If all of the valves are closed at this point in time, and the timing belt off, what would be the problem with turning the crankshaft clockwise, or even counterclockwise to re-align my timing mark? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you,

-Tim

 

[BISHILVR]

same here bro' ....and believe me when i say that i know from experience that an impact is'nt perfect or foolproof, theres prob been more things broken by them than fixed!!! but for the crank bolt i think it's a great way to go for shear speed and safety.....but def no hard feelings here...god bless and have a much better new year than last....maybe we'll even get some "normal" weather in the U.S. this year !!!

 

[BISHILVR]

btw is that your car in your sig?? if so i looked at it on the pics forum the other night and just zoomed in and kept staring at it....very nice......... me like!

 

[GTM]

All this business about not rotating a crank backwards never takes into account that engines do diesel and will run backwards given enough overlap and fuel which isn't available with a F/I car. Certainly when belts and chains are new they will do this with little or no ill effect though I've seen a few that ran on for more than a min. Perhaps the concern is the oil pump is now reversed but we aren't talking max loads and the residual oil will lube the moving parts.
.....................

I'm not applying for a job nor would it be fair to you or anyone else were I to start listing my credentials or detailing the 10's of thousands of cars and other pieces of equipment I've worked on.

Beside you and me, who else here can tell how many starters and different ways are there to start a D9 Cat...

As I've stated elsewhere, I've worked on almost every major car maker that has ever been imported in the US. That doen't include the dozens of Formula Libre and smaller engines plus sports prototypes like the Chaparals.

My DSM experience is quite limited but it's like all the rest ... just nuts and bolts, a few novel ideas but nothing that has changed basic physics.
......

Oh yes, just remembered another way I've used to remove the crankshaft bolt. Put the engine at BDC of compression stroke nearest the bolt and fill that cylinder with oil. And yes you can either suction the oil back out or force it out a depressed exhaust valve with lots of compressed air.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by BUCK
Your day will come -
...
You are TOTALLY correct that the Breaker bar method can be Very dangerous -
...

Yes I had a first time and maybe a second time some 35 years ago before I figured out what the problems were and how to solve it. Obviously the person he saw was not unable to realize that if the handle is directed towards the ground rather than it's upward stroke it won't take out parts of the car. You rest the last 1/2" on a very flimsy cardboard box which wil flip out of the way. The more important aspect is holding the socket, extension etc. exactly down the centerline so it can't jump out or off the bolt. This is easily accomplished by using a board or boards to shim between the frame and the engine so you can lever the breaker bar up tight where it cannot escape. I have had to use sissors jacks to bridge between suspension parts when there was no frame section ... Not every engine as it seems to have esaped observation will allow using an impact gun, there are still plenty of engines where the radiator blinds the crank pulley and then you have choices of dropping engine mounts or removing the radiator after draining all the coolant. Some of these kids are more interested in trying to show off rather than learn something. I seriously doubt there is any one person that can write a book about what I don't know.

I didn't get to this place in my life by being crazy, stupid, caveman or butcher. I have a scar on 1 thumb from a table saw, I have a sometimes back injury from snatching a 275 lb auto tranny out and slipping in spilled oil. And yes have jammed screwdrivers in my hand from misuse more times than I care to count but I know the risk and curse at myself when I bleed.

And everytime I have suggested this as an option I have explained in detail how to perform the job so nothing and no one will get harmed. It was the very reason that I asked when he was going to do the job. _Since_ he is still driving the car he has options, pull the splash panel and stop by some shop and pay them $5 to put an impact wrench on it while in 5th gear and then run it back up tight enough that he can drive home. The belt won't stretch, the engine won't counter-rotate. Hope I got my i's dotted and my t's crossed for someone it going to try and find falult there too.

Geepers,
GTM

 

[pgt1996]

Originally posted by GTM
_Since_ he is still driving the car he has options, pull the splash panel and stop by some shop and pay them $5 to put an impact wrench on it while in 5th gear and then run it back up tight enough that he can drive home. The belt won't stretch, the engine won't counter-rotate. Hope I got my i's dotted and my t's crossed for someone it going to try and find falult there too.

Geepers,
GTM

Funny you mention that....this from an email I got...."is the car still running or have you started taking it
apart..if the car is still mobile bring it by custom
muffler on worley the new one and i can loosen your
crank bolt enough (with an impact wrench) so that you can get it loose when
you get it home..you will also need the proper mitsu
tool to reinstall the new belt and i have the tool to
do it..i use to work at mitsu and have the tools you
need to properly do a timing belt and balance belt
replacement..if you have any questions give me a call"

Looks like it will work out.

Thanks,
-Tim

 

[BUCK]

My favorite recent Threads on Timing Belt & Head Install...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/sho...&threadid=87171

and Timing setting...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/sho...&threadid=92920

Good Luck!

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Morphius

...
I've got an extra rebuilt head here, I'll have to check tommarrow to verify how much those two cylinders valves are open.

I was hoping you were going to follow through with those checks.

The two things I'd like to know:

1) When head is flat on bench how far will a valve drop before it touches without a gasket?

2) When Intake and Exhaust valves are at max lift can they foul? ...... Not asking for dial indicator, just look at the stem wear shiny spots will do. If this is exceeded by .1" can they foul?

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Morphius]

Originally posted by GTM
I was hoping you were going to follow through with those checks.

The two things I'd like to know:

1) When head is flat on bench how far will a valve drop before it touches without a gasket?

2) When Intake and Exhaust valves are at max lift can they foul? ...... Not asking for dial indicator, just look at the stem wear shiny spots will do. If this is exceeded by .1" can they foul?

Cheers,
GTM

So did I. I'm workign on it. I've been fighting a combination of what started as food poisoning and then moved to the flu. My scenery has been the bed and the occasional view from the chair at the computer. As soon as I can, I'll get out and see what I can find.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Morphius
...
fighting a combination of what started as food poisoning and then moved to the flu. My scenery has been the bed and the occasional view from the chair at the computer. As soon as I can, I'll get out and see what I can find.

Oh, yuck. Don't spread that over here.

No biggie or rush, trying to get some idea what might be available for cam lifts and clearance on the overlap. I've got to rewrite the cam thread and I don't have a spare head for some importand missing data.

Cheers,
GTM