Turbonetics 62-1 too big???

[Slippi84]

But have you acually ever ran/tuned a car with a 62-1? I know two friends of mine with hondas 4 years ago that ran that turbo on a built b16 9:0.1 with .81 t4 housings. They would get 27psi by 5500.

Man it comes down to tuning/boost leaks/exhaust leaks. If you have any of them or all of them its going to be slower. And everyone always talks about old technoligy. The fpred (60-1) seems to have a huge market in the evo world, old technoligy that has been in the 9s before 35rs and extended tips billet hta stuff became the band wagon way.

I agree tuning matters a lot and is usually the main reason someone doesn't like their current setup. Keep in mind Honda's have different heads and cams that are more aggressive and make the car feel a lot different than dsm's too. I ran a 60-1 on my old 1g for a very short time before I upgraded to my gt14 setup(I was a turbo whore with my first 1g) it pulled good but like you said never tuned right and was never really impressed. But to keep everything in prospective higher compression more aggressive cams and spool similar to what I"ll see with a 900whp capable turbo just seems like you could def do better. just my .02

 

[1fastlaser]

I ran a 60-1 on my old 1g for a very short time before I upgraded to my gt14 setup(I was a turbo whore with my first 1g) it pulled good but like you said never tuned right and was never really impressed.

Exactly my point. Im sure you never even got close to getting the benefits out of eather of those turbos. Ive had a 60-1 setup for 4 years . I finally got it how i wanted it. Everyone on here goes 60-1s suck get a 35r, the compressor map this and that, there not a good pump gas turbo. Its very streetable. I love reading old post when a 60-1 was the gt42 of the time, everyone was like "man thats too big for the street, definatly not streetable". Now 20gs/50 trims/sc60,sc61/hx35 and hx40 are like stock turbos. Back then all the guys going fast would have told you your nuts for thinking of running anything of that size.

Alot of it is hear say from the past, before everyone had full function tuning of there engine (timing/fuel). Ill have to say if i trapped 122 on 93 octane, 22-23 psi with a bolt on 60-1 id say that throws all that hear say under the bus. Im sure there was alot left in it, but my goals are pump gas, and i got a deal on the new setup so im stepping up, otherwise i would have went back to the track on the same setup, and dug in and shot for upper 120s on pump gas, which i know would have happen. I just needed more time on the aem, and more boost/traction.

 

[Slippi84]

Exactly my point. Im sure you never even got close to getting the benefits out of eather of those turbos. Ive had a 60-1 setup for 4 years . I finally got it how i wanted it. Everyone on here goes 60-1s suck get a 35r, the compressor map this and that, there not a good pump gas turbo. Its very streetable. I love reading old post when a 60-1 was the gt42 of the time, everyone was like "man thats too big for the street, definatly not streetable". Now 20gs/50 trims/sc60,sc61/hx35 and hx40 are like stock turbos. Back then all the guys going fast would have told you your nuts for thinking of running anything of that size.

Alot of it is hear say from the past, before everyone had full function tuning of there engine (timing/fuel). Ill have to say if i trapped 122 on 93 octane, 22-23 psi with a bolt on 60-1 id say that throws all that hear say under the bus. Im sure there was alot left in it, but my goals are pump gas, and i got a deal on the new setup so im stepping up, otherwise i would have went back to the track on the same setup, and dug in and shot for upper 120s on pump gas, which i know would have happen. I just needed more time on the aem, and more boost/traction.

I don't doubt it but like anything else in amercia it's not that one thing is bad or doesn't do something good ENOUGH it's that there's something else out there that does it better. Look at cell phones that's a great example. People upgrade cell phones just about every year or atleast I and most of my friends do. My phone from 2 years ago made phone calls and text and could go online. My phone now guess what.....makes phone calls text and goes online. My phone I have now though has a full key pad and a faster connection to everything and just moves faster. Night and day faster, no, but faster yes. You and the guys that run fast on "the cell phone from 2 years ago" aren't doing it worng there's just easier ways to do it now. The big kicker which you have to keep in mind is also your biggest point. Tuning tuning tuning. This guy is not the best tuner ever(no offense to the OP) or he would have already tuned his car better and not made a thread about how his car runs wrong which is ok because I would not call my self a master tuner by any means either. Most guys with dsm's can't tune their own car so picking a turbo that you have to have tuned just right over a turbo where you can get the same performance out of with just a basic tune just doesn't seem benefitial. It's ass backwrads but it is what it is. Tuning PROPERLY is expensive and another thing dsm guys don't usualy have is money .

 

[toofast82]

My friend runs 10.0 in a grand national with the 62-1 and he drives regularly on the street and its nothing exotic. Just the supporting mods and a good tune. I like to play with my timing down low and its amazing the difference in spool it makes. As well as the fuel. I notice with less low end timing I get better spool because of the heat generated by less timing. Any turbo you have on there will need to be tuned for max performance! If you want the most out of your car and want it safely, tuning is a necessity. Spend your money on a good tune if you cant do it yourself, instead of buying parts that will land you right where you just were.

 

[Slippi84]

My friend runs 10.0 in a grand national with the 62-1 and he drives regularly on the street and its nothing exotic. Just the supporting mods and a good tune. I like to play with my timing down low and its amazing the difference in spool it makes. As well as the fuel. I notice with less low end timing I get better spool because of the heat generated by less timing. Any turbo you have on there will need to be tuned for max performance! If you want the most out of your car and want it safely, tuning is a necessity. Spend your money on a good tune if you cant do it yourself, instead of buying parts that will land you right where you just were.

Yeah agreed on the tuning part 100%. When I say tuned right I don't mean a newer or better turbo like a hx40 can just get thrown on and bam your set. You NEED to gat any turbo car tuned when you swap big things liek turbo engine ect or it will not run right period. But say a base tune where you just get your a/f ratio about where you need it is a lot different than like what your talking about when you mess with timing and fuel down low to help spool and tactics like that to make your car perform better.

By the way a grand national is a 4.1 6cyl turbo engine car so of course it will make a 62-1 type turbo seem better because lag is descreased. That's like having 2 4g63's running one.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

I think mainly it depends on how fast you want the spool to be. I'm sure the turbo you have will be plenty to make you fast at the track, but do you wanna wait for most of the rpm band before it kicks in when driving it on the street? A smaller turbo might be more fun on the street and still give you a good time at the track. If ya plan on really going all out and don't care if it's laggy on the street, then stick with it. I had an E16g on my last Eclipse that was really fun. Slapped on my T-67 that I had layin around with a P-trim t3 housing that really sucked in comparison on the street (that was tuned). On a 2.3 stroker it was fine. 2.0 motor sucked. Took it off and went with a 50 trim that was much better all around. All a matter of preference.

 

[1fastlaser]

I think mainly it depends on how fast you want the spool to be. I'm sure the turbo you have will be plenty to make you fast at the track, but do you wanna wait for most of the rpm band before it kicks in when driving it on the street? A smaller turbo might be more fun on the street and still give you a good time at the track. If ya plan on really going all out and don't care if it's laggy on the street, then stick with it. I had an E16g on my last Eclipse that was really fun. Slapped on my T-67 that I had layin around with a P-trim t3 housing that really sucked in comparison on the street (that was tuned). On a 2.3 stroker it was fine. 2.0 motor sucked. Took it off and went with a 50 trim that was much better all around. All a matter of preference.

Lag/tuning is all in the eye of the beholder also. Take your car to 3 different shops that say they can tune you X engine managment better (i beleave when you get into big turbos you need timing/fuel control to really use it for track and street). Every shop is going to claim they can tune it better then the rest. Just because your at one shop and make lets say 500, dosent mean 500 is the most the car will make, even in the same day. You might take it to another shop and they can pull another anywhere from 10-100hp out of it.

Same thing with lag, our cars are 5 speed. The art of downshifting will take care of the worst of turbo lag. Also understanding preboost timing and fuel curves can decrease spool rpm by hundreds. Its always good to learn engine management yourself, if you have somewhat of an idea, you make make 67mm turbos and bigger feel like 50 trims.

 

[4g63awdtalon]

Yeah agreed on the tuning part 100%. When I say tuned right I don't mean a newer or better turbo like a hx40 can just get thrown on and bam your set. You NEED to gat any turbo car tuned when you swap big things liek turbo engine ect or it will not run right period. But say a base tune where you just get your a/f ratio about where you need it is a lot different than like what your talking about when you mess with timing and fuel down low to help spool and tactics like that to make your car perform better.

By the way a grand national is a 4.1 6cyl turbo engine car so of course it will make a 62-1 type turbo seem better because lag is descreased. That's like having 2 4g63's running one.

grand national is a 3.8l the sy/ty are 4.3l

 

[Slippi84]

grand national is a 3.8l the sy/ty are 4.3l

Actually the first ones in 1982 had 4.1l turbo v6 engines. The later models and the ones that everyone identifies with are 3.8 turbo 6's but the first ones were 4.1 v6 turbo engines. EIther way though a 3.8 and a 2.0 will have VERY different turbo characteristics even with the same exact turbo. That's even bigger than a supra motor and has higher compression.

 

[toofast82]

the grand nationals that we think of are 3.8l and have 7.8-1 compression. yes they have more cubes but they also only rev to 4200rpm in stock form. A couple friends of mine have them so ive seen under the hood as well as been for rides many times

 

[toofast82]

when i ran my holset, If you launched from stutterbox it was awesome, but if you were running from a roll, you always had to play catchup.

 

[Slippi84]

the grand nationals that we think of are 3.8l and have 7.8-1 compression. yes they have more cubes but they also only rev to 4200rpm in stock form. A couple friends of mine have them so ive seen under the hood as well as been for rides many times

Like I said the grand nationals that everyone knows have 3.8 but they started out with a 4.1 but even with the 3.8 that is HUGE difference. Have you ever been in a car with a stroker motor compared to a basic 2.0 dsm? You can feel a pretty nice increase in torque and low end power and faster spool now imagine that times 6 and that's a grand national motor. Of course you won't rev as high because you flow the same amount at a lower rpm. a 2.4 motor usually doesn't rev past like 8500 so I would imagine over 5k in a 3.8 would be dangerous and also not needed.

 

[1fastlaser]

Like I said the grand nationals that everyone knows have 3.8 but they started out with a 4.1 but even with the 3.8 that is HUGE difference. Have you ever been in a car with a stroker motor compared to a basic 2.0 dsm? You can feel a pretty nice increase in torque and low end power and faster spool now imagine that times 6 and that's a grand national motor. Of course you won't rev as high because you flow the same amount at a lower rpm. a 2.4 motor usually doesn't rev past like 8500 so I would imagine over 5k in a 3.8 would be dangerous and also not needed.

the 4.1 liters were not turbo though., the 3.8s were. I love them

 

[kraka]

But have you acually ever ran/tuned a car with a 62-1? I know two friends of mine with hondas 4 years ago that ran that turbo on a built b16 9:0.1 with .81 t4 housings. They would get 27psi by 5500.

Man it comes down to tuning/boost leaks/exhaust leaks. If you have any of them or all of them its going to be slower. And everyone always talks about old technoligy. The fpred (60-1) seems to have a huge market in the evo world, old technoligy that has been in the 9s before 35rs and extended tips billet hta stuff became the band wagon way.

Sorry to go off topic, but just to clarify, the FP Red for Evo's aka EvoRed is not the same 60-1/td06 laggy hybrid that is used on DSM's. However, it HAS gone 9's and 10's in street driven evo's.

 

[Slippi84]

the 4.1 liters were not turbo though., the 3.8s were. I love them

Same here we had one come threw the dealer when I worked at the lexus when it was around the corner from your old place.

I think the sides have been exhausted and everyone has made good points and put in their .02. To the OP take the info and make your own decision. Whichever way you go good luck and make sure you tune it right

 

[toofast82]

5k in a 3.8 is not dangerous! My 454 and thats like 7.5l in my camaro shifts at 7k no problem. the reason the 3.8 shifts at 4200rpm is because it has crap cylinder heads, a small cam, and no compression, and weak ass valve springs.

 

[1fastlaser]

Sorry to go off topic, but just to clarify, the FP Red for Evo's aka EvoRed is not the same 60-1/td06 laggy hybrid that is used on DSM's. However, it HAS gone 9's and 10's in street driven evo's.

Yeah i guess i figured they followed the name but they claim its different, same 7 blade wheel. Id like a evo owner to pull one apart and measure it, but most evo owners pay someone to do the work so i doubt that will happen. Me, owning an evo myself, i have no desire to mess with it right now. Again only laggy by word of mouth, and tuning. By the time they have full engine managment on the car im sure there reds were long gone. Also we dont have factory twin scroll setups.

I think we need guys who acually have had results with like or the same turbo, not guys who have heard, and read stuff. It produces so much bad, and misleading info that it can drive someone crazy. Times have changed since everyone was just using Tmo chips and vpc/gcc setups. God 20psi use to be insane on pump gas, now guys are running 30 .

 

[Slippi84]

5k in a 3.8 is not dangerous! My 454 and thats like 7.5l in my camaro shifts at 7k no problem. the reason the 3.8 shifts at 4200rpm is because it has crap cylinder heads, a small cam, and no compression, and weak ass valve springs.

That's even worse than dangerous then it's useless without head work. Anyway I care not about GNX or muscle cars no offense as I know you like your camaro but my point was you can not compare a 3.8 motor to a 2.0 when talking about how streetable a turbo is. That is all.

 

[toofast82]

Well its obvious the 14b would not be the turbo of choice for a 454 because it cant feed the air requirements. Our engines in extremely built fashion have the capability to rev to 10k which would allow you to take advantage of a turbo like a gt42 where as if you were only revving to 6.5k it would be useless. Yes a 3.8 would spool any turbo faster due to more displacement than 2.0l. Most dsm stutterboxes are set higher than grand national motor shift point. It doesnt mean this gt42 is more beneficial on the 3.8l. Theres so many factors to consider. I dont care about grand national either, i think its a pos motor and tranny with a good rearend. they are notorious for flat cams at 90k miles.

 

[Slippi84]

yeah i would stick with the t4 if you already have it, maybe the .58a/r as you said. i know someone who runs 10.0 in a grand national with this turbo and is also capable of daily driving. as was posted abouve those are great numbers on a stock 7bolt with a similar turbo.

You said that. That's the only reason I spoke about GNX's but they are not really relevant to dsm's. If you want to compare or use engine size to reference streetability of a turbo talk about a 2.4 or 2.3 vs a 2.0. Have you ever run a turbo as big as a 62-1 just out of curiosity. I mean I know what carver runs as I have seen his car plenty of times but i'm not familiar with yoru setups???

 

[toofast82]

ive run a t25 13g,14b,18g,60-1,and a holset hx35 about 2years ago. I've personally assembled 4g63 engines, i have numerous t-belts,hg,clutches,fuel pumps. i burn my own eprom chips and run speed density without aem or maftpro. ive even done a clutch pedal assembly. im not a newbie. Regardless is a 62-1 going to spool as fast as a t-25, hell no! I personally think this turbo is capable of great power and decent spool with a good tune. its just not a usual turbo that a dsmer would run.

 

[darkhorizon]

I run a hx35 3.8 (well actually a 3800S2, its a 3.8 with a stouter lower and better heads)

We only rev to 6500-6700 due to head flow issues, not dangerous valvetrain issues.. as that can be easily solved. My stock heads only make power up to ~6krpms, any more is just trying to stretch a gear.

Turbo size characteristics are nearly identical between a 2.0 and a 3.8 due to head flow. You can basically just divide the spool times down... I get full spool on a 12ccm hx35 at 3200rpms, you guys get it at 4kish.

 

[Slippi84]

ive run a t25 13g,14b,18g,60-1,and a holset hx35 about 2years ago. I've personally assembled 4g63 engines, i have numerous t-belts,hg,clutches,fuel pumps. i burn my own eprom chips and run speed density without aem or maftpro. ive even done a clutch pedal assembly. im not a newbie. Regardless is a 62-1 going to spool as fast as a t-25, hell no! I personally think this turbo is capable of great power and decent spool with a good tune. its just not a usual turbo that a dsmer would run.

I wasn't asking to see if you were a newb. I was asking to see if you have ever run a turbo this big because like carver said hearing about a turbo this size and running one are different' I know people that say I can make a gt40 spool fast because I saw twick and some others do it so I know it will happen and I just wanted to make sure you were not one of those guys. I have run a 14b, cheap ebay 16g, PTE 50 trim, 60-1, GT14 from SBR, and my setup I'm making now is based around a hx52. I say this to the OP though, no matter how good your tune is this will not be a 4k full boost turbo especially if your running a t4 hotside.

 

[Slippi84]

I run a hx35 3.8 (well actually a 3800S2, its a 3.8 with a stouter lower and better heads)

We only rev to 6500-6700 due to head flow issues, not dangerous valvetrain issues.. as that can be easily solved. My stock heads only make power up to ~6krpms, any more is just trying to stretch a gear.

Turbo size characteristics are nearly identical between a 2.0 and a 3.8 due to head flow. You can basically just divide the spool times down... I get full spool on a 12ccm hx35 at 3200rpms, you guys get it at 4kish.

You need to work on your tune then or your head is REAL bad because it doesn't take a hx35 in 12cm housing till 4k to hit full boost. There are hx35 guys who spool as fast if not faster than 16g's. Go check out the holset threads.

 

[darkhorizon]

automatic, with a bad stall, I can spool it from just about any roll speed. Worse case I spool it at low 3's from a stop.