turboing my rs

[napkinthief]

i want to turbo my rs, and keep turbo on it for about 2 months before going to low comp pistons...is that going to be a problem if i will be doing only 4 psi?

and if i dont run an intercooler, what are the effects? can I use the piping from my broken a/c from my house just to route the air from the turbo to the intake manifold? it is finned and about 1.5"

here is my list please add anything i am missing

t-25 turbo
oil line kit
exhaust housing for turbo
piping
mbc
some bov unsure which


things i may need but not sure if neccessary
walbro fuel pump
smic


please add anything i am missing, i really want to get this project underway

 

[napkinthief]

also im not too big on drilling into my oil pan, is there a way i can setup a spare oil reservoir just for the turbo?

also is t25 the cheapest turbo i can get that pushes 4 psi?

 

[wolf20043]

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157911
lots of good info there on turboing a non turbo 2.0. as for the oil pan call the junkyards and find a turbo oil pan...it will bolt right in.
Mike

 

[napkinthief]

im a 2g not 1g

 

[wolf20043]

my bad
just look in the 2g n/t forum .....a search brought up alot of useful info. Any ///'s just ask there.hope it helps.
Mike

 

[Spyder4g64]

As far as parts you need much more thn that, and no, i dont think your setup isnt going to work. First of all, as far as parts go, your going to need an exhaust manifold, a downpipe, and some exhaust work to connect the pipes. The 420a motor does not have the fuel capabilities to support a turbo and your going to need turbo dsm injectors. To run these injectors your going to need the turbo ecu, because of the impendance differences. One last point i am going to make is about your idea of 4psi. With the compression of a n/t motor, even a turbo motor, i dont think tht 4 lbs is possible. To get the information you want just search everywhere and annoy the people that know... ive been doing it for a year.... good luck on your setup and feel free to ask me questions.

 

[napkinthief]

the turbo injectors are 450, would there be a problem if i went out and got really big injectors, say 1000 so i would not have to worry about any future upgrading of them?

as for the manifold i am going to attempt following the tech guide by making one using the Ts and elbows on a gasket

how much psi should i run on the engine because of its compression? i would be upgrading the pistons after about 2 months so i can save some more money, and i will get some low comp ones and some engine boring.

im on a stock exhaust with a 2.5" muffler.

heres my upgrade path that i want to follow

this turbo upgrade
pistons/engine work
3" exhaust
99 front bumper/headlights
FMIC w/ piping
upgrade turbo


somewhere between the pistons and the FMIC my tranny is going to go out, hopefully after the winter ends...I will be getting a 5 speed tranny then, hopefully rebuilt with some really good internals so I dont have to go back into it

I want my final car to have around 325-350 hp, but that is probably over a year away. i want the car to run mid-high 11s. I think 350 hp should be enough.

 

[Spyder4g64]

I think you need to do your homework before attempting to run 11s... You need to first run 14, then 13, 12 and so on.... No, you cant just put 1000cc injectors in and expect them to work... your ecu doesnt put out the same impedance(ohms) as the bigger injectors.... im telling you u need to do the ecu swap. I would also recommend using a real manifold, not one you make.

 

[Spyder4g64]

the stock 1g motor has 7.8 : 1 compression. This is far from your motors compression. Kepping the boost around 4psi is impossible, and i dont care what your plans are to do it. Just wait for the pistons.

 

[napkinthief]

I want my final car to have around 325-350 hp, but that is probably over a year away. i want the car to run mid-high 11s. I think 350 hp should be enough.

i know im not gonna run anything near 11 for a long time, i do research and i see many people with 1000 injectors using dsmlink to run them

how much compression should i run and i am trying to follow this guide

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181134

i can weld that well if not better, and i am looking for a cheap way to go turbo


and stop telling me about 1gs, i have a 2g.

 

[suicidal2af]

I think you need to do your homework before attempting to run 11s... You need to first run 14, then 13, 12 and so on.... No, you cant just put 1000cc injectors in and expect them to work... your ecu doesnt put out the same impedance(ohms) as the bigger injectors.... im telling you u need to do the ecu swap. I would also recommend using a real manifold, not one you make.

ECU swap is a great idea...if he doesn't want his car to have the ability to run.

Swapping a 4g63 ecu into a 420a has about as much merit as us swapping an STi ecu.

Anyway, on to an answer.

You'll need bigger injectors. You could get away with an SAFC to control them, some sort of standalone would be better. Either will work.

You'll need the turbo, the manifold, an intercooler, rising rate afpr, fuel pump, piping, and downpipe.

 

[suicidal2af]

the turbo injectors are 450, would there be a problem if i went out and got really big injectors, say 1000 so i would not have to worry about any future upgrading of them?

as for the manifold i am going to attempt following the tech guide by making one using the Ts and elbows on a gasket

how much psi should i run on the engine because of its compression? i would be upgrading the pistons after about 2 months so i can save some more money, and i will get some low comp ones and some engine boring.

im on a stock exhaust with a 2.5" muffler.

heres my upgrade path that i want to follow

this turbo upgrade
pistons/engine work
3" exhaust
99 front bumper/headlights
FMIC w/ piping
upgrade turbo


somewhere between the pistons and the FMIC my tranny is going to go out, hopefully after the winter ends...I will be getting a 5 speed tranny then, hopefully rebuilt with some really good internals so I dont have to go back into it

I want my final car to have around 325-350 hp, but that is probably over a year away. i want the car to run mid-high 11s. I think 350 hp should be enough.

Not to sound like a smartass, but have you thought about just selling your car and buying a gst or gsx?

Once you factor in the cost of an engine build, exhaust, front-end swap, turbo, ic, tranny rebuild/swap, you've spent more than it would cost you to buy a 2gb turbo.

 

[napkinthief]

I really did think about buying an already turbo, but I dont want to pay the higher insurance premiums, and this is my first car; I dont want to let it go. The engine is almost new, with about 42k miles on it, I just got it detailed and I am halfway through the process of making a custom sound system in it. If I did sell the car right now, I'd pull the speakers, headunit, sub/amp, and that will negatively impact the value of an already low value car. I went to see a tradein price at a couple dealerships and I got 1200 at the best one, if I sell it 800 cash.

Plus, I am trying to learn as much about dsms and turbos as I could and a turbo install seems like an extremely rewarding experience. I will eventually get a gsx or a tsiawd, I just dont have the money for it right now, and if I do the upgrades little by little I don't notice a huge investment of money. And I'd also like to see my car go from slow, and gradually get up there with the other cars.

 

[suicidal2af]

I really did think about buying an already turbo, but I dont want to pay the higher insurance premiums, and this is my first car; I dont want to let it go. The engine is almost new, with about 42k miles on it, I just got it detailed and I am halfway through the process of making a custom sound system in it. If I did sell the car right now, I'd pull the speakers, headunit, sub/amp, and that will negatively impact the value of an already low value car. I went to see a tradein price at a couple dealerships and I got 1200 at the best one, if I sell it 800 cash.

Plus, I am trying to learn as much about dsms and turbos as I could and a turbo install seems like an extremely rewarding experience. I will eventually get a gsx or a tsiawd, I just dont have the money for it right now, and if I do the upgrades little by little I don't notice a huge investment of money. And I'd also like to see my car go from slow, and gradually get up there with the other cars.

Fair enough. Wasn't trying to be a dick, was just asking. Those are pretty good reasons for not selling.

 

[Spyder4g64]

First of all, swapping a 2g turbo ecu will work, and has been doneHERE . I have done it into my first setup, which was a hybrid 2.0/2.4L. Bigger injectors WILL NOT WORK. They have different impendance than the smaller ones. The stock injectors have a higher impendance of 8-10ohms while the bigger turbo injectors have 4-6ohms. You should really research before you post critisizm to experience. Anyway, your going to need the knock sensor to retard timing when dtonation occurs, this also is included in the turbo ecu.

 

[cs82685]

wow your getting a lot of bad advice here but some good too
you don't need bigger injectors but you do need a new pump get a walbro 255, you also need either a fmu with a 12:1 disc or an sfmu with the 12:1 disc and dark spring that come with the vortech sfmu.<----recommended (you can also get a cartech fpr but they're supposedly pretty crappy) You will benefit from getting bigger injectors but its not the most important thing if your only running 4psi for now, you will just run high fuel pressures until you get bigger injectors, which is the need for bigger pump. 330's, probably 440's would be good if your planning on shortly rebuilding the engine and turning up the boost. You can also get injectors that are for the 420a motor so you don't have to worry about the ecu or impedance or whatever crap is being talked about above, (not with 4psi at least not saying their wrong but its definetly not first up on the things needed list, not trying to be a dick or start any wars here).

Search and you will find all your answers, here is a great guide for what you need and how to install it
http://www.2gnt.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=85

also read articles in the turbo section on 2gnt for the next week and you will know more than you need

also to your question of how much boost you can run, most would say no more than 7psi stock otherwise your engine will not last for very long

as for the oil pan you can probably post in the for sale/wtb section of 2gnt.com and can probably find one that is all ready tapped for an oil return line that someone has lying around

Gauges... get an egt gauge, boost gauge, and wideband if you can afford it (if not get a narrowband a/f gauge just for some sort of clue as to what your a/f looks like, also a fp gauge would be very beneficial and an oil pressure gauge...if your strapped for cash i would start with the egt and the boost gauge

finally being a 96 you first have to find out if you have the early fuel system or the late fuel system after you figure that out then you can search to see exactly how that should be set up


installing your own turbo kit is definetly a rewarding experience good luck

edit: also as to your goal of 11's i don't think anybody has gotten there with an rs aside from bill hahn jr. and you are gonna need quite a bit of money, time and knowledge to get to over 300whp. Your probably gonna have to look into either getting a megasquirt or having an 8 injector setup, both of which are beyond my current knowledge so search and read up on those options

 

[suicidal2af]

First of all, swapping a 2g turbo ecu will work, and has been doneHERE . I have done it into my first setup, which was a hybrid 2.0/2.4L. Bigger injectors WILL NOT WORK. They have different impendance than the smaller ones. The stock injectors have a higher impendance of 8-10ohms while the bigger turbo injectors have 4-6ohms. You should really research before you post critisizm to experience. Anyway, your going to need the knock sensor to retard timing when dtonation occurs, this also is included in the turbo ecu.

Show me where in that link they swapped a 2g turbo ecu into a 420a-powered 2gnt.

You have a different engine. 4g64 != 420a. Stop giving bad advice.

And as far as bigger injectors go: you can get high impedance or low impedance of any flowrate.

Stop giving advice if you don't know the answer.

 

[Spyder4g64]

suicidal, both the 4g64 and 420a have high impendance injectors... Dont tell me im wrong either... i was comparing the motors because their harnesses and ecus are almost the same, bearing high impendance... Also, swapping the turbo ecu will provide a knock sensor.

 

[RandomHero]

show me a site or do a very detailed "how to" on how to do this 420a ecu to a 2g 4g63 turbo ecu? if not im am i non believer.

 

[dustyb]

gosh, posts like this is why i quit coming to this website.....

if you're looking at turboing your car, i'd suggest building up your engine first. you may want to run 4 psi, but you'll want to turn the boost up little by little..... spend your money building the engine first and make your engine stable and able to handle it, then put the good stuff on.

 

[steve]

suicidal, both the 4g64 and 420a have high impendance injectors... Dont tell me im wrong either... i was comparing the motors because their harnesses and ecus are almost the same, bearing high impendance... Also, swapping the turbo ecu will provide a knock sensor.

Seriously, just because a 4G64 and 420a both use high impedance injectors doesn't imply that the ECU's are almost the same. They are completely different.

Trying to make a Mitsubishi turbo ECU replace the Chrysler NA ECU is about on the same level as putting the Mitsubishi ECU in a Honda. So lets move on.

Steve

 

[dr1665]

Seriously, just because a 4G64 and 420a both use high impedance injectors doesn't imply that the ECU's are almost the same. They are completely different.

Trying to make a Mitsubishi turbo ECU replace the Chrysler NA ECU is about on the same level as putting the Mitsubishi ECU in a Honda. So lets move on.

Steve

Thank you, Steve. The voice of reason. That "turbo ECU swap" stuff was making my skin crawl. It was all I could do to skim to the bottom of this thread to reply. It's like a train wreck, you know? You don't want to look, but you just have to. Allow me to reiterate that you can not swap a 4G63 or 4G64 ECU into your 2GNT. Period.

EDIT:
I didn't even need to check the link for the ECU swap, but I did anyways after the fact. The very first line clearly states "The idea is to swap a 98-99 N/A 4G64 Spyder's ECU with a 95-99 turbo ECU."

First and foremost, get into the tech section HERE and check out Chris's write-up for piecing together a custom turbo kit for about a grand. I'm not going to link you because you need to be able to utilize your resources (this site and 2GNT) if you have any hope of both pulling this off and making it last. The write-up details what is needed, when it is needed, and where it is needed. I believe Chris even provides some background into why some things are needed.

The AC piping is a no-no. You will need to invest in custom pipes, but again, Chris provides information on what you need and where he got his from in that write-up.

You will NOT need larger injectors to run this kind of boost. You will need some form of fuel management device. For beginners, I highly recommend you get the Vortech SFMU. Not the regular FMU, but the S(uper)FMU. It gives you more adjustability. More pressure through the same injector at the same duty cycle should provide all the fuel you need to run your 4lbs. I am not 100% certain of this reasoning, but I know that the HRC kits, which run more boost through larger turbos than you're contemplating do not specify larger injectors out of the box. Even so, running larger injectors on a turbo 2GNT brings discussion of "transition to boost" to the table and you've got other things to worry about first. When you're ready to shop injectors (post rebuild) hit up the 2GNT search utility for "Ford Red Top Injectors." They will plug and play and are an affordable injector upgrade. I just sold a set of 30# red tops for $50 (it's something like an 8# increase in flow if I'm right).

Regarding 4lbs, I believe HRC puts 5 through their non-intercooled systems and then 7 through the systems with coolers. I personally know someone who's been running 10 through a FMIC'd stage 2, but it's becomming apparent that it will wear things down. Fortunately for him, he's less than two months from having his 2.4L ready to go. At that point, he'll take the car to the track, crank the boost and see just what kind of punishment he can dish out.

You will not need to build your engine to run this small amount of boost. Do a compression test to verify that your engine is healthy. Mileage is not really a good measure of durability. You can find out how to do this test by using the search either here or 2GNT for sure.

You will need to run oil feed and return lines. This means you will need to drill/tap the pan for the fitting. As was mentioned, you might find a pan out there with this already done, but chances are, the seller will want you to buy the rest of his turbo system with it.

Your goals are admirable, and I applaud you for wanting to be at the forefront of turbo 2GNT performance, but I'd suggest you keep 11s as your ultimate goal and set yourself some more short term goals so you don't lose your enthusiasm. As was mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the fastest turbo 2GNT out there is Bill Hahn, Jr. in the HRC factory car. I think he ran a 10.8 with a 20G and spray. You've got the makings of a fine DIY system going on in this thread, but it's not going to get you anywhere near his times. When you break into the 14s, look to the 13s and so on. Make educated decisions about what to do and when to do it. This is the best way to both get the most out of your car at the track and gain the most experience in tuning it everywhere else. When you do finally get to the level of game you're striving towards, you will need all the tuning experience you can get because when things go bad at that level, they go bad in a big way.

Don't lose hope and never give up, but respect your car and your good name enough to research the various aspects of your project along the way, so as not to be swayed by Johnny Clueless.

 

[WHite97RS]

when it comes to something like this i suggest listening only to the wisemen or people who have actually turboed their N/T eclipse. hit up my AIM if you have any Qs. granted it took me 2 years to finally turbo my car. although im having tuning issues i wouldnt trade it for the world.