Turbo to manifold gasket

[Srt4RacerDave]

I currently have pacesetter headers on my 16g turbo. I had a pretty nice thick metal gasket in there before I got the headers, and then when I got the new exhaust manifold I put in the gasket that came with it. The gasket was made of some kind of cheap material (not metal) and chipped away on a few sides. Now I have a rather large exhaust leak and would like to get it fixed. I bought a new 7 cm polished gasket, but as I compare it to the old metal gasket that was in the car originally, I see that the old gasket is much thicker. Should I use the old thicker gasket or is their a place that I can buy a new gasket that is thicker then 7 cm? I would like to get this leak fixed because I'm building boost way too slow because of it. Thanks.

 

[JusMX141]

If you think you're building boost slow now, wait 'til that Pacesetter cracks at the collector. My buddy ran one 8 months until runner #4 completely broke away from the collector. Pacesetter wouldn't warranty the manifold because he had wrapped it, which they claimed voided the warranty....meanwhile it broke at the collector, and there wasn't any heat wrap within 5 inches of the collector.

Pacesetter probably gave you one of those nice paper ceramic gaskets with the header, which cannot hold 1psi of boost. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably go for the thicker (original) metal gasket, and make sure the collector bolts stay tight.

But honestly, unless Pacesetter has done something to drastically improve the quality of their products in the past year or so, you'll have that header off again in a few months when it cracks....so use whatever gasket you think will work best.

 

[interex]

I don't think you're allowed to "flame" on a product in the newbie forums... I know you're far from a newbie but wow, you said a mouth full about pacesetter.

Also, to the OP of the thread... Just because your question isn't answered in a previous thread 30 minutes ago doesnt mean to just create a new thread.

 

[JusMX141]

I don't think it's considered flaming when you're describing a first-hand experience with a horrible product....and this isn't the Newbie forum.

I told him which gasket I would choose to replace the piece of toilet paper that Pacesetter gives you with the header, and I also told him what to expect when the header breaks....and it will. Check out this 15-page thread discussing their reliability:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...-turbo-manifold-any-good-no-merged-5-8-a.html

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

justmx141 is correct, a quick search will reveal many threads that show how wack the pacesetter product is.

another review

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...ws/152192-review-pacesetter-turbo-header.html

should just go with ported 2g manifold and 7cm gasket from rre or other vendors here. tried and true for the budget racer

 

[interex]

i dunno why I typed "newbie forum" I didn't mean to. but you're right, maybe first hand expierences might be different

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

I don't think you're allowed to "flame" on a product in the newbie forums... I know you're far from a newbie but wow, you said a mouth full about pacesetter.

Also, to the OP of the thread... Just because your question isn't answered in a previous thread 30 minutes ago doesnt mean to just create a new thread.

If you actually READ each thread, you will see that they are different questions =) Don't just assume by the names.


As for the quality of the exhaust manifold, I have had no problems with mine and it is still in good condition. I do have a ported 2g manifold sitting here as well. But I'd rather keep my current on in.

 

[JusMX141]

Have you found it insanely difficult to get to one of the rear collector bolts on that Pacesetter? I can't remember which one, but I remember having the worst time with one of the collector bolts closest to the head on my buddy's car.

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

Oh yeah, it certainly is a pain. I have to use a regular 12mm wrench.

 

[JusMX141]

Yeah I recall using a 14mm box end wrench and getting like an inch of movement at the end of the wrench before having to reload. That one bolt took 10 minutes to remove.

 

[z24frank]

justmx141 is correct, a quick search will reveal many threads that show how wack the pacesetter product is.

another review

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...ws/152192-review-pacesetter-turbo-header.html

should just go with ported 2g manifold and 7cm gasket from rre or other vendors here. tried and true for the budget racer

I agree here ^^^^

 

[JusMX141]

Remember- never, ever use Anti-Seize on your manifold-to-turbo flange bolts or the o2 housing bolts. The turbine housing gets so hot that the carrier will dry out of the Anti-Seize leaving behind a material that will act like a threadlocker instead of a lubricant.


A couple drops of motor oil on each bolt going in will stop the "binding" while you torque the bolts to spec, then the oil will burn off completely leaving a dry thread that will disassmble easily.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Remember- never, ever use Anti-Seize on your manifold-to-turbo flange bolts or the o2 housing bolts. The turbine housing gets so hot that the carrier will dry out of the Anti-Seize leaving behind a material that will act like a threadlocker instead of a lubricant.


A couple drops of motor oil on each bolt going in will stop the "binding" while you torque the bolts to spec, then the oil will burn off completely leaving a dry thread that will disassmble easily.

D'oh.

Thats actually quite important information. I'm not sure if I've seen it before. I know for sure, though, that people have suggested using copper anti-seize in this instance... but no reports on ease of disassembly.

 

[romeen]

I've been using copper anti-seize on exhaust components. In the hottest areas I have noticed that it does in fact turn into to a fine, powdery dust after only a few heat cycles. But I can't say whether or not this fact hinders it's ability to do it's job. I haven't had any seized fasteners since using it. But this is over a short time period so take this FWIW.

The nickel based stuff is supposedly better.

 

[pboglio]

I disagree. The oil used as the carrying agent for Antizeize burns off but the powder still assists in preventing galling acting as a dry lubricant.

Anybody stupid enough to loosen the manifold bolts when they are stone cold will gall the bolts in short order, antizeize or not. I run the motor hard, then pop the hood and loosen the bolts during idle. The bolts come off as if they were lubricated with WD40. I do this fast cause you can actually feel the bolts getting sticky as they cool down.

 

[JusMX141]

Believe what you want, but I've seen far too many cases where the dry "lubricant" of the Anti-Seize is what actually causes the galling. The bolt will start to come out about two turns and then stop completely, and that's where it breaks....even if I heat the housing cherry red with the oxy torch. Often you can see the white powder at the bottom of the bolt hole where the carrier lubricant got hot, ran out, and dried. For that reason alone I'll never use Anti-Seize of any kind on my turbo and o2 housing bolts again.

To anyone thinking stainless hardware is the solution- stainless is a bad idea around extreme heat.

 

[pboglio]

I never had it happen to me but if you've seen it then I believe you I personally haven't had galling with my technique and I'll stick with what I know for myself.

Having said that, IF you've galled cold, then post heating isn't going to help at that point since its already cold welded.

You have to apply heat BEFORE you start unscrewing the bolt, not afterwards. Dry lubricant is a common application to prevent cold welding in stainless hardware for instance. Unloading the turbo charger assembly during unscrewing the manifold bolts also reduces galling. Its the side loading that is the primary cause of galling to begin with as this generates extreme localized pressure between mating thread surfaces.

Like I said, unscrew the bolt nice and hot, keep the weight of the turbo off the bolts or anything that could side load a bolt.

 

[viprez586]

Believe what you want, but I've seen far too many cases where the dry "lubricant" of the Anti-Seize is what actually causes the galling. The bolt will start to come out about two turns and then stop completely, and that's where it breaks....

When it stops or slows down that doesn't mean you keep going, think of it as tapping new threads. Taps aren't made of the strongest material(honestly i forgot what they are) in the world and if you just keep threading into the hole without backing off slowly and tapping in slowly you'll snap the tap off in the hole.
Just food for thought there anyway.

But yeah, so how are your supposed to take the load off your turbine housing?
I'm assuming a pipe + a small jack would be suffice.

Oh yeah, anyone try the ARP moly lube? It's only good to like 800*F so i didn't bother using it.

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

I do actually have a 2g manifold but I'm not entirely sure if it's ported or not (previous owner had it on). It's been sitting in my garage since I put the new manifold on it.

 

[slowgsr]

Dont run a gasket, make sure both surfaces are flat. period

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

No gasket at all? I'm pretty sure I'd be leaking then.

 

[JusMX141]

When it stops or slows down that doesn't mean you keep going, think of it as tapping new threads.

I realize this. However, once you start threading the bolt out and it slows down, you can't just thread it back in because it's already to the point where it feels tight going in OR out. You're pretty much screwed at that point. Any advice other than not using Anti-seize?

 

[pboglio]

I used to strip manifold turbo bolts all the time. Usually it would leave the thread behind inside the turbine housing and a little thread chasing with a tap would push the stripped bolts threads out. The bolt is definitely softer than the turbine housing, this is a good thing as nobody wants to drill thru hardened steel. I found out thru trial and error what worked and now I can pull a bolt out without even leaving a shiny mark on the threads. I reuse them many times cause I'm cheap. I should be worrying about bolt stretch but with a good OEM multilayer gasket I go easier on the torque settings as ultra high torque isn't needed.

If I see any signficant shinyness on the threads or a rounded thread than the bolt gets pitched. I only tap the turbine housing threads to chase them out. I used to bottom the tap out but this took too much material off the turbine housing threads and just leaves less engagement thread surface area for the bolt to clamp to, making galling even worse later on.

My cure: flat mating surfaces, OEM 7cm multilayer turbo/manifold gasket, clean bolts, antiseize, cold install/hot retorque, hot uninstall.

I don't even give it any thought anymore cause is ceases to give me problems.

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

I would ABSOLUTELY love a hot uninstall. This is the biggest problem. It is ABSOLUTELY impossible to remove the four bolts out of pacesetter heads while the car is hot. Would burn both my hands off. Even if it wasn't really THAT hot, just the way you need to reach to get the bolts makes hot uninstall impossible. Any advice?

 

[z24frank]

Use kitchen gloves ,I was in the same place with my manifold and ended up just barking one of them off.