Turbo Cold Air... what do you think?

[L2RTSiAWD]

How about you show me some *real data* that proves it makes no difference.

None of the fastest dsm'ers I've heard of use one?

 

[G_S_X]

what about like going through a big puddle really fast when your not paying attention or something? would that get it wet enough for it to suck in the water?

My friend got CAI on his GTI vr6 and went through a puddle on a rainy day and blew his engine , he had a warranty but it was voided because of the CAI so he ended up paying big bucks to get it fixed

 

[clownface]

wow that sucks.....

anyway, that dre99gsx or w/e his name is has a cold air intake and hes making 500 AWDHP with a 50 trim.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

it can probably drop temps but do me a favor. Drive your car around for an hour or two then pull over and pop the hood. Now grab your turbo with your hand. Chances are it will probably be hott and you wont be able to hold on. Now what do you think happens to air that goes through a hott turbo, gets warmed up but then cooled down in the intercooler. This is all mere hypothesis, i could be wrong but so could you.

 

[Defiant]

How about you show me some *real data* that proves it makes no difference.

Fact:

Lower lnlet temps yields a more agressive timing advance across the board.

Fact:

Lower inlet temps reduces the onset of pre-ignition at any boost level.

Fact:

Lower inlet temps yields lower charged air temps post turbo and I/C

Beh. A T-25 pumps the air out at over 200°F. Ten degrees at its inlet won't be making enough difference for the bother. And although the motor won't care about injested water in small amounts, droplets impinging on the turbine blades is bad. Very bad.

 

[clownface]

hmm....what about if it was a larger turbo? would it yeild better results then?

If the turbo raises the temps that much, even a larger one, then maybe that spot would be better for a tranny oil cooler or brake cooling duck or something??? And the best spot for the filter would be right on the turbo??...if your on blow through of course.

 

[Liquid Illusion]

None of the fastest dsm'ers I've heard of use one?

This guy is amazing,

Do you have any idea how nitrous and alcohol effects charged air temps? Also the fastest dsm of record. Which is Brent Rau's car uses a cold air inlet molded into the fiberglass nose section of his car.

Also until last year John Shepard had a cold air intake on his car also.
What fast dsm's are you speaking of? If we move outside the dsm arena all the fast pro class drag cars ingest air from an ambient location 'all of them'.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

On my car a cold air intake reduced air inlet temps from 131 degrees to 76, increased timing by 3-4 degrees and reduced knock by 2-4 counts, on pump gas. On race gas the difference was minimal, on pump gas, the difference was at least 12-15 hp, becuase that is what it takes for me to notice a difference.

Trap speeds on 91 with a cold air go up consistently about a mph in the 1/8 on 91 octane, I have never done 1/4 mile testing. But 1.5 MPH would be a safe assumption, equivalent to knocking off an easy tenth of a second from the ET. For L2R's benefit, I have a huge spearco intercooler.

All in all you would have to be a compete idiot to not think of it as a significant improvement. Not only is the air going to be heated up significantly less, but it will increase the effciency of your turbo

Turbo's don't care about boost levels, they care about pressure ratios. Having a higher pressure/density at the inlet allows for the turbo to make the same boost at a lower compressor speed, decreasing the amount of heat generated, into already significantly colder air.

Has anyone noticed that many DSM'ers just follow mod paths and don't have the ability to think for themselves?

Sean

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

How about you show me some *real data* that proves it makes no difference.

Fact:

Lower lnlet temps yields a more agressive timing advance across the board.

Fact:

Lower inlet temps reduces the onset of pre-ignition at any boost level.

Fact:

Lower inlet temps yields lower charged air temps post turbo and I/C

WORD!

Here are all the temp related items that pull timing from the 2G ECU Tuning from DSMLink..

· Coolant temps below 206F get full timing
· Coolant temps above 224F lose two degrees of advance
· Coolant temps between those two lose only one degree
· Intake temps above 84F or below 34F lose one degree

 

[ITSME4G63]

Make me one, right now! get to it!

 

[tsi20gawd]

how mutch are they going to be?

 

[DSMJim]

I have always personally debated the cold air issue. On the street I run the regular ol setup where Mitsu puts it stock. At the track I pull my headlight out and take the filter out of my HKS so it's only the velocity stack.

Now with the AEM I think I will make up a pipe and keep it in the stock location anyway (maybe? have not decided yet really...) and just continue to pull the headlight like I do now at the track and put a velocity stack on the end of the pipe or something with no filter.

As far as I can figure starting with the coldest air possible can't possibly hurt, however I still have not personally seen it make huge increases in power (or any increase that is measureable) Comparing a full drag car where the turbo comes out of the hood like Brents car does (like Vinny Ten's old setup before he went twins) to a cold air on a street car is not a very fair comparison.

Fact:

Lower lnlet temps yields a more agressive timing advance across the board.

Fact:

Lower inlet temps reduces the onset of pre-ignition at any boost level.

Fact:

Lower inlet temps yields lower charged air temps post turbo and I/C

I completly agree on all these counts but still am not totally convinced that a cold air intake on a turbo car will give you any colder air. I think a properly sized intercooler to your application is much more effective way to acheive those three goals then a cold air is. Not that were debating that either. It seems to me like a cold air would work, but I have yet to see some solid proof really. People seeing cooler air temp inlets on their DSM link isn't really proof to me personally. Not that I am disputing that but I like to prove things to myself on my own car in my own controled circumstances. If it makes a repeated gain then I know it works on my car.

Maybe I should do a back to back run on my car at the track with the filter under the hood and the filter cold air, considering I'm not using a stock MAF anymore the difference would be the largest because it's the freest flowing intake design I could have. So if there is a difference it would be measureable. Give the car three runs, first would be just to get the car hot then wait 10 mins, then run hot air intake, wait 10 mins, then cold air intake. That way the car would be the same heat for both comparison runs.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Apparently my post was ignored, I have made over 60 passes in the 1/8 mile on the same setup with this being the only difference, I can't run 7's wiouth cold air, and its about 1 MPH difference in the 1/8...89 to 90 MPH consistently, with reasonable variation, but its very consistent, and of course since I have numerous datalogs showing that it reduces knock and increase timing, it does make sense.

The idea that an intercooler cools all air to a given temperature regardless of inlet temp is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

 

[DSMJim]

Apparently my post was ignored, I have made over 60 passes in the 1/8 mile on the same setup with this being the only difference, I can't run 7's wiouth cold air, and its about 1 MPH difference in the 1/8...89 to 90 MPH consistently, with reasonable variation, but its very consistent, and of course since I have numerous datalogs showing that it reduces knock and increase timing, it does make sense.

I said:
"I like to prove things to myself on my own car in my own controled circumstances. If it makes a repeated gain then I know it works on my car. "

I like to prove it on my own car. Just because Dre made 500whp on a 50trim does not mean that I ever will. Same with a cold air intake. Just because you ran 1mph faster in the 1/8th does not mean my car will. My setup is totally different than yours. Your results do not mean that it will happen on my car. I think I could benefit so I am going to try however that does not mean I am expecting 1mph gain by the 1/8th just because that is what you got.

The idea that an intercooler cools all air to a given temperature regardless of inlet temp is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Not sure where you got this idea from.

I said: "I think a properly sized intercooler to your application is much more effective way to acheive those three goals then a cold air is."

Meaning that a cold air intake on a stock intercooler is much less effective then a "hot" air intake on a good sized intercooler. An intercooler IS a much more effective way at getting cold air to your car. I never said a cold air won't help just that I want to prove it on my own car with my setup. You have no idea if it will work on my car at all, neither do I. Am I expecting a gain, not really. Will I be surprised if there is one? Not really either. It sounds like it should work and give me results, however with out doing it on my own car talk is cheap and doesn't mean squat.

Nobody is saying your gains are not true or didn't work for you. Your gain is your gain. That is not proof that it works on "MY" car.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

These are all ratio's and percentages, what goes in affects what come out. Physics does not stop at your driveway.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

I can see the cold air intake being less of a factor with a larger intercooler... You can throw heat inside the system, through the turbo, but if the intercooler is able to handle it, it doesn't matter.. This assuming you DON'T Have a stock 2G MAS or have turned off the temp check via DSMLink or other means, where your engine timing is going to be pulled because of those higher intake temps. Generally speaking, cold air intakes have less to do with performance vs a NA vehicle because of the added factors and plumbing...

 

[bastarddsm]

itsstockofficer is right. an intercooler can only cool air to the ambiant teperature no cooler. so an intercooler that is 50% efficent will cool the intake charge to halfway between ambient and the temp going in. so therefore the less efficent your intercooler is the more important it is to have the air going into it closer to ambient. if you can't understand that then you are just plain DUMB, and don't belong workin on cars.

 

[gsxstac]

I made the same setup for 20$ i simply bought a 4" degree ss elbow from a local truck shop and bought a connector. i enlarged the hole under the factory air box and attatched the 4" bend to the stock 2g mass air. then I attatched the filter to that. Obviously you need a front mount with short route piping for this to work but i see alot of people have that nowadays anyway. I did this for the reasons I'll explain now:

i had a 20g on my 2g awd and I remember staring that car up for school early in the morn. for the first 10 mins or so the thing was an animal. like ungodly fast but soon after it lost its "bite" Many times i popped the hood to inspect and the gush of hot air that attacked my face was obiously the problem. the mass air was reading very hot (read: less dense) air and it was defenitely affecting my performance. by the time I did the research about the mass air reading less dense air my car had blown up so i didnt get a solid chance to test it out at full boost.

about 6 months before i had the 20g i had a 19c turbo. i went to the track for my 1st time when i was 18. Now my car has horrible boost creep so i set my boost to 20 psi but it would creep to 24 very quickly. my 1st run was 12.9 with headlight in. 2nd run was 13.0 still with headlight in. 3rd run was 12.7 with headlight. 4th run was 13.3 without headlight.
I ran slower without the headlight i swear to god the car felt so fast in 1st and 2nd but in 3rd and 4th it went to like 27 psi and leaned out horribly so i let off the gas and coasted

If i had been prepared for that and i tuned it for that the car would have def been faster. it made 3 more psi then usual. nevermind the fact i was running this much boost on a stock 7 bolt, i was prob knocking like crazy but i didnt care, i was hacing fun.

if your using stock 2g mass air cold air is def better. if not then if you can drop it by 30-40 degrees i dont care what anyone says, when it leave the compressor side of the turbo its still gonna be at least half that much cooler and make it much easier for the intercooler to cool it down.

how many mods to people do that dont so shit???? this mod is so cheap and if anything it can help you.

and your not gonna hydrolock ur motor unless your an idiot and you submerge the filter. dont be at full throttle through a lake, simple as that

 

[WillWrk4Boost]

what about like going through a big puddle really fast when your not paying attention or something? would that get it wet enough for it to suck in the water?

Do what i did. (Cold Air Ram Intake) Look under tech tips under intake...... Iv noticed intake temp drop

Devon

 

[Tarantula]

Props to this design as I beleive it does make a difference. I have made a design yielding similar results (40 degree drop in temps) but geared for those that has a 2G with a regular mitsubishi mass and still on the STOCk side mount intercooler. For details heres the link.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1007270#post1007270

 

[jimwross]

Make me one, right now! get to it!

Since I'm not a vendor, I think I'm obligated to say "Private Message Me" or "Email Me" if your interested...

Thanks!

 

[Liquid Illusion]

A properly sized intercooler is a given, I assumed that part was an understood variable. Vinny Tens new twin setup just like Brent Rau's car has two nostrils molded into the hood. As Sean has already stated physics does not stop at your driveway or become irrelevant. Because the uneducated majority of a specific owners group says ambient inlet temps don't effect horse power.

 

[kpt4321]

If you have a efficient intercooler it shouldn't matter where the filter is located.

WRONG!

 

[kpt4321]

I completly agree on all these counts but still am not totally convinced that a cold air intake on a turbo car will give you any colder air.

Whaaaaattt??

Have you ever looked at your intake temps? Did you read the posts where other people showed the temperature difference?

My intake temps get over 100 degrees all the time, even when ambient is only 60 or 70. A cold air intake would give me ambient intake air. 70 is cooler than 100.

I think a properly sized intercooler to your application is much more effective way to acheive those three goals then a cold air is.

I will do the math for this later, I just got home from work and I am tired. However, a cold air intake lowering the intake temps like 20-30 degrees is worth 10-15% intercooler efficieny, or more. That's ####ing huge.

It seems to me like a cold air would work, but I have yet to see some solid proof really. People seeing cooler air temp inlets on their DSM link isn't really proof to me personally.

WTF?

A temperature gauge saying that the conditions are colder is not good enough proof? What the hell do you want, an average molecular sped analysis?

Not that I am disputing that but I like to prove things to myself on my own car in my own controled circumstances. If it makes a repeated gain then I know it works on my car.

So you have to test everything on your car, before you know it works?

Do you run nitrous? Water injection? Propane injection? 35 psi? If you don't run one of those, I guess we can't say it works until you do.

 

[kpt4321]

You have no idea if it will work on my car at all, neither do I.

If you lower your intake temps, you will gain power. End of story.