2G Tubular adjustable suspension parts for the entire chassis. Tubular subframes

[greengoblin]

Raising it at the lower arm does give a high roll center which is great for turn in and fast changes but why have that if the rear cannot follow as fast with the front? The whole reason to alter the rear is to get the rear to follow as fast as the front but with the increase in rear grip without adjusting the rear the RC is high and is not in its optimum range.

Your assuming that the front and rear of the car are at the same ride height and that is not the case. The rear of most of the roadrace dsm is actually very close to stock height while the front is lowered. Running rake is good.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Your assuming that the front and rear of the car are at the same ride height and that is not the case. The rear of most of the roadrace dsm is actually very close to stock height while the front is lowered. Running rake is good.

Oh no.... in not for damn sure haha. Again this is all something i will get to in due time but i am thinking about the fronts when i am doing the rear to see if it will have any bad effects or if it will put the front out badly.

The centers on front and rear are not the same i know this because i know that the reaction points are different so equals different points, i know some rake is good but ive not got to that part in detail yet as to working out how much is good vs limits of bad. Im trying to learn alot in a short space of time and all by drawing and what online calculators i can base it from as the systems i would like to use cost alot more then i can afford im not baseing it assuming F/R are the same height, there are 2 ways about how i want to start this, 1, is lower it 1.5" around as the rear will still be higher then the front and 2, is the better way, lower it and stop as the arms reach a certain point to not over do it keeping the arm in optimum range but this only applies to the arms in the stock location if they can be adjusted then 2 goes out the window.

This is why i want to go watch the 7 post rig as this can help me understand all aspects of adjustments and angles then what side effects it has and then the problems it creates for the next section etc etc.

Im not expexting to know this stuff all right away and i know some people will more then me at this point, im headed in the right direction from what I have been told from these chats ao I will progress with this and if it fails it fails but I dont think it will from my workings out.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Another update! And this time its a good update! I have made the JIG and made one to test fit and see if there is any issues! And there is zero issues, well 1 monor one and thats 1 bolt is 5mm too long but these are stock shocks and wont hit when they on my actual car with coilovers on!

In total the camber that can be gained is 2.2* which is a good amount. There are a few reasons to make these and I shall list them reasons here.
Removal of the stock rubber bush and get full movement.
Better suspension feedback (more direct to the chassis)
Stronger then OEM.

But the biggest reason is that when lowering the upper arms become angled too far up and its not the best for the suspension! So ive build the inner brackets to take the lowering into account so each hole is 1" spaced and can keep the stock arm angle or adjust to get the best effect of the suspension and movement!

This design is alittle different then i first had jotted down but its always different on paper then when you make a sample set. As you can see from one side its got a straight welded on the bush, this was not the original design but due to angles and spacing i had to do it this way, I would really like to have that as 1 bush machined in 1 piece and not a bush and a bit of tube welded to it so its easier and should smarten it up a bit,

Next step is to get these on the car and test drive them for a while to see how they react and effect they have and if i need to make any adjustments in design etc etc.

Thanks for reading guys and I hope you enjoy the pics,

All comments and thoughts are welcome as always.

Now these are pretty much done i have the fronts to jump onto now and as I have that 50% on the fronts already sorted its just a case of getting the ball rolling again on them. So keep an eye on the thread for updates on those.

Thanks Bobby

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[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Got the other side made up now and painted, now I got to find time to get them on get the car fully tested for all camber and adjustment ranges and then for testing and see what its like to drive on, results to follow soon folks,

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[miliman13]

Really looking forward to seeing more results on this.
Great pics. And always post more

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Really looking forward to seeing more results on this.
Great pics. And always post more

I will post pics once installed and sitting pretty haha.

 

[danielsl1999gsx]

Wow, great work mate. In for results

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Let me know if you want someone to test these in an autocross environment. I usually do 2 events a month.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Let me know if you want someone to test these in an autocross environment. I usually do 2 events a month.

Thanks for the offer buddy, im going to test them on the road and do a small track event local to me and see what comes of it, i know they will hold up fine i just want to know what the effects are per adjustment for altering the roll center locations or rather how it feels even getting the arms back to correct levels when lowering,


Thanks for the likes and replys guys, much appriciated and i shall be back once they are installed and also when ive driven on them.

 

[mountain_man]

See Bobby, I'm not the only one that's after a set!

 

[2slow4utsi]

You have a ballpark of what these will run? Isn't someone else building these as well or has them available?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Your not allowed to talk about price or ask so no no on that.

And as far as i am aware I am the ONLY person to have done this on the rears that incorperate the roll center adjustment and rod ends. The galant units are tube but they are quite bulky and your only adjustment is the inner camber washers, but none offer adjustment for when your lowering so this is why i decided to make my own so i can get the best possible suspension setup once its been altered from stock ride height, megan makes fronts for camber but my fronts I plan to make will also be able to adjust roll centers on them aswell to take full advantage of the altered ride height.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Got them on, a few small things i need to look at development wise but only small clearance items to look at, nothing serious, reason for it is left and right sides are slightly different in shape for the rear and my guess is its bevause the fuel pipe moves the rear tub more so more room, either way its on ok and works as its designed to.

* Initial thoughts are slightly more rear noise but not alot more, barely noticeable.

* rear feels more solid and supported compared to the oem arms, maybe its the lack of rubbers inbored and flex in the arms.

* corners feel tighter but ive only gone rounf afew roundabouts and corners but not yet fully push them just yet,

* each side took about 10-15 mins to install which is good, adjustments are the longer process of course.

Ive got to get the rear checked out for allignment to see how much its off by since ive put them on as i installed them as close as i could without moving the knuckle so i hoped it didnt adjust it so much.

More info and details of feel and such will be more once ive had the chance to have a proper drive on them

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[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I drove the car for around 300ish miles today so i had a good chance to check the arms out on different situations, I was traveling up to the USAF base here for a car event so figured i would listen alot and try some stuff out that i could.

The ride is great and for the corners i did do it felt sharp and supported and held very well,

I can most certainly feel the rear is more supported and i dont know the right words to use exactly and this is going to sound weird possibly but its what i feel which is different, with these the front seems more snappy like faster response and turn in feels faster too, its weird to describe im possibly thinking because the rear feels tighter its making the front respond differently, it feels great and i managed to take some corners and S bends pretty good.

Ive got these setup on the inner bracket 1" higher hole then the lowest hole oem as the 2" higher hole would make it just too high on the inner part of the arm for me so not ideal plus im not super super low. I dont have any way to test bump camber or bump toe yet but ive got plans to buy some tools to help check these out but its all costly stuff to buy,

I tried to feel or hear more on the rear for noise and bumps etc etc, noise is only just noticable and i can hear the wheels a tad more then with rubber bushes, bumps are heard more then with rubber aswell as it would do from the rod ends,

Overall the drive was nice and a great feel over the 300 something miles i did today,

If anyone has any questions or wants to know anything i can try my best to answer them.

Thanks Bobby

 

[asexton6969]

Way to go, looks fantastic!

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Way to go, looks fantastic!

Thank you, its nice I have managed to make something different for our cars and with a great benefit from it aswell with more adjustability then just camber

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

another big update! i got all the front end drawn up over the last few weeks once i corrected some of them, the front sample set is now all machined up and ready to be bolted up,

originally i wantex to use a spherical bearing ontop of the knuckle with a standard allstar bump rod but it was too tall and it ment i could not have adjustment on the outer section of the arm, so i decided to make everything from scratch! this means its all very close to the oem BJ height and when i say close its about 2mm taller so well within limit.

the inner mountings are also all completely different and unique, ive opted for this design for a few reasons, they are able to be kept at oem mounting height and they can be moved up exactly 1"!!! which is the most that can be done.

this also allows me to add 1 thing i think will be a great addition to the suspension system on our cars and thats ANTI DIVE! this means that 1 side can be kept at oem levels and the other 1" up and make the arms anti dive! this will make the front end more stable upon breaking, this at the moment is just a hope ive done my research right but from what i have done it should work pretty well and work as planned,

the mounts for the inner part now have upper hats to keep them 100% in line and stop any slack that there once was, it was ready pretty tight from factory but ive made it tighter and the upper hat will help keep it good,

all this means both inner and outer are adjustable and that makes caster more adjustable aswell with a great movement for camber too, when i build my jig im planning to make them with around 3* caster built into the wishbone and then can be adjusted from there,

im pretty sure ive listed everything ive planned for these.

once if fitted the at the weekend to make sure they fit perfectly then the jig will be made and then a sample set done. so keep an eye out for updates

thanks folks and hope you enjoy reading this as much as i enjoy designing and making them.

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[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

i also wanted to mention on another post i decided to make a bump steer correction tie rod end! its just basic but it makes the mounting point below the knuckle and it counteracts the lowering from around 1"! as if you look at your lowered car the steering arm angle is super high! this brings it back in check! i will be checking angles over the weekend to make sure it is not going to foul! i just hame bump steer as much as the next guy who cars about proper suspension setup.

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[GsxJon]

Looking good man. Keep up the good work!

 

[Apache]

I am becoming more and more excited as this progresses. Would love to be able to have fully adjustable arms for my car. Keep at it and keep us posted!

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Im also excited to get it done! It just takes sometime to get it right but ive worked most of the kinks and issues out now, so onto the next part of parts modifying/redrawing and then jig up a sample set to check out my workings out are all upto scratch and i worked it out right haha.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

So i forgot to update this thread last weekend!!! naughty Bobby.

I got the main checking for the suspension up and im going to rework some of it to account for spacing etc, more on that once i get time to remake and jiggle stuff.

The bumpsteer end seems to work a charm and its well within spec from lowering and motion in the suspension travel and not that i need it but it seems to work in the oem place uptop aswell which was nice to see, so onto making a set up from the choosen steel grade and testing them on the roads, ive gone for EN16T which is way over what it needs to be but its strong and super tough so will be nice, i considered 7075 T6 aluminum and may still do but because i had to get 1 side down to make room for the arm it went close to its limits so thats why steel may be best for strength.

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[mountain_man]

Hey Bobby, I would recommend (actually I would prefer) steel solely because those of us that run big sticky tires would love to have the safety factor of knowing the steering rod isn't going to bend. From an engineering perspective it's over kill however comma...... it doesn't cost you anything in the grand scheme of things.

Keep up the great work and sign me up for a set!

 

[Apache]

I agree that steel is probably better as well. The argument could be made that aluminum COULD be better simply for the weight savings, but that's probably splitting hairs on this part. Especially if it could become a consumable because it doesn't have the strength to last a decent number of cycles. Having said that, most true race cars accept that some parts ARE consumables to gain every advantage in weight that they can.

Keep us posted!

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Wow, that looks great. Sucks bumpsteer kits are not allowed in SM.