Too much throw? : Drivetrain Gurus Please Chime In!

[JStrateger]

I''ve been struggling to fix this issue for some time now with my clutch. It appears to me that the system has too much throw and the pressure plate forks are rubbing against the clutch springs, it makes a horrible sound when the clutch is pushed completely to the floor. That and the clutch engages about half an inch off the floor.

1) To attempt to fix the engagement point problem, I adjusted the master cylinder per jack transmissions video on youtube, so I know it's not the pedal but I believe this is the reason why I have too much throw in the system and the forks are rubbing on the springs. It's adjusted to give me maximum throw but if I adjust is back some, the clutch drags but the forks don't rub.

2) I then thought it was my flywheel, which I had turned at a local machine shop. I checked the step height and it's reading .610", which I believe is in spec and should work fine?

Now I'm just stumped as to whats wrong with the clutch system. The slave cylinder is new and the master seems to be alright. Looks newer and isn't leaking any fluid. Anyone with any advice, I'd gladly appreciate it because I have no clue how to go about fixing this problem except replacing all the parts with new ones.

Here are some pictures of what my PP and clutch disk look like after removing them. You can see the wear marks on the inside of the PP from where it was hitting the springs.

 

[crimsondragon]

Definitely not something with your flywheel. Step is within range as well. Is your tranny aftermarket? What's the history on it? How old are the clutch fork and pivot ball? I want to say the issue lies within those two. Check the center line of the fork to the bell housing. Might have to shim the pivot ball more but that's only a band aid. Also the clutch plate springs aren't loose are they?

 

[eeeewidner]

Is your slave cylinder hose restricted or pinched. + 1 on the clutch fork...

 

[JStrateger]

Definitely not something with your flywheel. Step is within range as well. Is your tranny aftermarket? What's the history on it? How old are the clutch fork and pivot ball? I want to say the issue lies within those two. Check the center line of the fork to the bell housing. Might have to shim the pivot ball more but that's only a band aid. Also the clutch plate springs aren't loose are they?

As far as I know, everything on the car is oem. The only things new are the clutch and PP (which it's been doing this since I put it in) Maybe I got the wrong clutch?

The fork and pivot ball I reused, I bought a new pivot ball and plan on getting a new fork but could that really caused this issue? The fork doesn't look bent at all.

What do you mean by the springs being too lose? As in popping out?

Is your slave cylinder hose restricted or pinched. + 1 on the clutch fork...

No, the line wasn't pinched at all. I'm thinking about replacing the whole line with a single SS just to be on the safe side. I still have the self adjusting reservoir on the side of the transmission, not sure if that might have something to do with it.

Oh yeah, here's an old video of my problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZWFeV2Npug

 

[delta448]

Have you had problems with any clutch (old or new) slipping on this car? How well does the new clutch hold right now?

I'm with Tim on this one.

I'd suspect either the fork, pivot ball or slave rod, probably pivot ball install height first, then the fork lever length/shape second. I think that the pivot may have been shimmed out in order to band-aid a bent fork in the past, or possibly the slave has an extended rod in it (or both) and all the extra leverage is letting the fork extend it's range too much.

 

[JStrateger]

The clutch has never slipped, it's holds up great through all gears. The only drive issues I have is that the clutch pedal engaged right off the floor, which made the car a pita to drive. It wouldn't go into gear unless the clutch was to the floor and when it was to the floor, the PP forks grind on the disc springs.

The pivot ball has never been shimmed and the slave cylinder is a new oem type from advanced auto parts with the rod that came with it. Maybe the rods are different? I think I still have the oem slave cylinder, I'll check the lengths today.

Do you think I might have gotten the wrong clutch or my master cylinder is bad?

The possible culprits I believe are:
Wrong clutch (I bought this clutch off ebay like three years ago for 60 bucks... might go with an act2100)
Shift fork and pivot ball (These are oem factory parts, definitely replacing these regardless)
master cylinder (not sure if I would have this much throw if this was bad? The system would be loosing pressure)
clutch line reservoir on side of transmission (not really sure what this does but I think it's some type of self adjusting pressure system? Maybe I should replace it with an SS line and eliminate that all together?)

I'm about to replace my clutch, flywheel, pivot ball and fork just to be on the safe side. I know replacing parts to just replace them isn't really the smartest thing to do but I really don't wanna pull the tranny again after I put it back together...

 

[habitatguy187]

Start the car in neutral, put a little pressure on the shifter to try and make it go into first, while doing this slowly push the clutch in and see if it will let you into 1st before the pedal gets to the floor.

 

[JStrateger]

I can't do that now because the transmissions out of the car but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to. The car wouldn't go into first at all unless it was right at the floor.

I checked my slave cylinder rod that came with the car and to my surprise; it's longer than the one that I got from advanced auto parts. It's not much longer but might be enough to cause my problem. I mean since a small 1mm washer makes a huge difference behind the pivot ball, I'm sure a 5mm shorter slave rod would cause all kinds of problems... right? Including my issue with no clutch pedal.

Left Rod: 85mm long, I believe it's OEM. Came on the car when I bought it, replaced it because the slave cylinder was bad.

Right Rod: 80mm long, from Advanced Auto Parts. The label on the box says: HYND, which I would think is short for Hyundai.

Do you guys think this could be the cause to my problem?

 

[crimsondragon]

A longer slave rod would push the plate fingers further into the clutch disc. But that should also decrease the amount of pedal you would have to push down to disengage the clutch from the engine. Generally, pressure plate and clutch kits are the same through the years and can be installed on 6 bolt and 7 bolt, AWD and FWD with no problems. I want to say the pressure plate isn't the issue here but I also don't want to rule it out. At the very least, I'd start making the plans for what you want to do with the car so you can choose a clutch kit appropriately and not have to buy twice. I'd definitely swap the slave rod out though. Another word of advice is to always use OEM master and slave cylinders. There are numerous reports on generic ones failing miserably and leaking after a while of use. Again, check where the fork sits in comparison to the bellhousing. Pull the boot off if needed.

Read everything on this site, especially the part about the fork alignment: RRE's Clutch And Flywheel Tech Info
If you can, scrounge up another $120 and buy a new clutch fork and new OEM slave cylinder. It'll be a wise investment.

 

[JStrateger]

A longer slave rod would push the plate fingers further into the clutch disc. But that should also decrease the amount of pedal you would have to push down to disengage the clutch from the engine. Generally, pressure plate and clutch kits are the same through the years and can be installed on 6 bolt and 7 bolt, AWD and FWD with no problems. I want to say the pressure plate isn't the issue here but I also don't want to rule it out. At the very least, I'd start making the plans for what you want to do with the car so you can choose a clutch kit appropriately and not have to buy twice. I'd definitely swap the slave rod out though. Another word of advice is to always use OEM master and slave cylinders. There are numerous reports on generic ones failing miserably and leaking after a while of use. Again, check where the fork sits in comparison to the bellhousing. Pull the boot off if needed.

Read everything on this site, especially the part about the fork alignment: RRE's Clutch And Flywheel Tech Info
If you can, scrounge up another $120 and buy a new clutch fork and new OEM slave cylinder. It'll be a wise investment.

Thanks for everyone's help , I'm definitely going to keep this all in mind. I think the cause to all these problem lies in buying shitty parts to try and save a couple a bucks, which is what I did. As a result, now I'm tearing my car back apart only to replace them.

The bright side is: time for some upgrades. I'm going to be using my car for mostly street and occasional track and my goal is around 320-350 whp. I'm replacing the pivot ball, clutch fork, flywheel (lightened RRE) and clutch/PP (Act 2100) Time to get her ready for winter parking =(

 

[Artago]

Did you end up fixing the problem?

Have a similar problem: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/472569-sbc-pressure-plate-damaged-pics.html