Tokico Illumina Discussion

[PieEyedPiper]

Among 2g's I would imagine that a large percentage of DSMer's use or have used Illuminas in their cars. RRE recommends them for best overall choice for the street and the Illuminas + Prokit combo is so notorious that they should really just be sold as packages.

But what do we really know about them and their behavior under certain circumstances? Some of our suspension gurus claim that, like other japanese shocks, Illuminas adjust rebound with compression and that this is an undesireable trait.

I find this to be true. Doesn't matter if I have my rears set on 3 or 5, when the rear end is compressed I have to brace myself for the inevitable launch that ensues shortly thereafter. It seems that the rebound, at almost any setting, is excessive for any kind of serious driving, even if you're just serious about getting to class.

Today, I spilled my coffee all over myself on the commute to school. I was travelling at ~75mph probably a little less, and I went over a small dip in the highway that compressed my rear end. The result was a startling rebound of the rear end that rocked my, usually steady, hand into my face, thus left with my drink running down my chin.

Yesterday, I was driving through a very winedy road with very tight turns. The car grips well and can perform well if you're able to predict the understeer just right. But again I found that whenever my front or rear suspension was compressed a considerable amount, the rebound was even as far as "dangerous". I almost thought my car was playing leap frog.

I may not be the best driver around, but I'm positive that this is an undesirable aspect of the Illuminas that I'm experiencing, rather than driver error.

Could this be from using the relatively weak sauce, Pro-kits? One might imagine a higher spring rate contributing even more to this behavior.

I also experience a pretty rough ride on any pavement that is not perfectly smooth. Pot holes and dips hit with feirce impact at even just 20-25mph. I granny my car around town and I still end up tossing loose objects around the inside of my car.



So, basically, I'm looking for some intelligent discussion based on the abilities, inabilities, strengths and weaknesses of the Tokico Illuminas for the 2g application. This was my first hand account, and I have yet to find a "sweet spot" adjustment setting for my setup, Illuminas + Pro-kits.

Assuming this is typical behavior of such a setup, is there any remedy, or am I stuck wishing I had Ksports or Konis + GC coilovers (not that I know for sure they would give me the desired result, having no experience with those)?

 

[sd_ff22]

I run the same set-up so I am very interested in this thread.
I have never had much trouble with my illuminas or pro-kits, But I also have not had the situation you desribed of hitting such a dip at speed. I mean, I have come accross dips in the freeway but none that made my car react the way you describe.

subscribing.

-Dan

 

[empie1]

I love my illuminas...didnt really notice the effects your talking about.

 

[Ludachris]

I think you guys should also include what type of driving you've done with them. Will you be competing? Will they be expected to perform at race tracks, autocrosses, etc? What other modifications will they be working with? That's all important information. It may not be the Tokicos making your car feel unsafe, it may be the lack of another modification or the use of another. Please be specific and detailed with your replies so this can become a useful thread.

Personally, I would think the Koni would be a superior piece for most situations, especially if competing. I figured Tokicos were chosen mainly due to their lower price point.

 

[Ludachris]

I love my illuminas...didnt really notice the effects your talking about.

Please be more specific and highlight some detailed situations. Had you experimented with all the driving situations that were mentioned above? What were the results.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

My setup...

Illuminas (3/3)/GC coilovers (450/275)/GC upper mounts (front)/ES poly bushings (HyperFlex kit)/Ingalls camber kits F&R/strut bars F&R/18" Yokohama Parada spec2.

My car rarely leaves the garage unless the sun is out. No 1/4 runs, very occasional autocross days (and then it's just for fun). I travel on roads that are fairly decent with a minor amount of obstacles that I should avoid.

I've had the setup since '99 and it has worked very nicely. The ride quality is definitely harsher than stock, but I don't feel the need for a kidney transplant after driving the car. It turns-in much better than stock and changes lanes with a "flick" of the wheel...couldn't really ask for more. There are a couple of spots in the road I travel that have a quick dip in it that feels like there are steel rods instead of shocks/springs under me, but other than a few spots...the car behaves acceptable (or maybe I'm just used to it). I've never noticed the "launch" effect that you're describing. The car has been very predictable in it's handling characteristics when "pushed".

I do have a strong desire to bump to a Koni/GC setup (just from here-say), I just haven't had things come together properly yet.

 

[empie1]

I drive them every day...so yes, I have encountered some of the same situations.Its not that bad, but then again, all lowered cars ride like shit compared to a good stock set up.Its a tradeoff- better handling for a mor uncomfortable ride.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I think you guys should also include what type of driving you've done with them. Will you be competing? Will they be expected to perform at race tracks, autocrosses, etc? What other modifications will they be working with? That's all important information. It may not be the Tokicos making your car feel unsafe, it may be the lack of another modification or the use of another. Please be specific and detailed with your replies so this can become a useful thread.

Personally, I would think the Koni would be a superior piece for most situations, especially if competing. I figured Tokicos were chosen mainly due to their lower price point.

Good points.
I don't compete, but I'd like to try autocross this summer. The car is also stock, suspension wise - other than the shocks and springs right now with almost 110k on the bushings and control arms etc.
I'm going to install the SPC adjustable control arms in the next couple of weeks, along with brand new lower and lateral control arms. I will be keeping the stock bushings for comfort, but I'm sure they'll feel plenty stiff in comparison to my gear that has been beat on for 110k miles. The goal of the SPC arms is to get the adjustability I wanted and really dial in that alignment.

I tend to overstate things when I write, perhaps I made it sound worse than it is (for those of you who find my statements odd or even blasphemous). The car drives fine really, just really rough on pot holes (go figure), and really springy.
Its the springyness that I don't like. The feeling reminds me of my Cannondale Head Shok (Air + spring) I had on my mountain bike. Likes to pop up with some good force.

I need to do further testing on the stiffest and softest settings, 1 and 5 on that windey road to be sure of how serious that launching feeling is under different settings. I was on 3/3 that day. I just hate feeling like I'm going to leave my seat.

I also experience the lane changing with little more than a "flick" as described by Formontoya, but I'm sure his GC setup is much more aggressive than mine.

I've also noticed sharper turn in.

I've even had the car up on 2 wheels before at 60mph. Scary, yes. But the increased agility over the stock setup did save my life that day. .. man people do stupid shit on the highway in the mornings.

Another characteristic that I've found to be common with Illuminas is that the rears will hiss on the first two settings. This seems to be uncommon for DSMers with only one or two confirmed (by me) cases. I've spoken with and seen posts by several Mustang owners that experience the same thing.
I called Tokico about it one time and they were happy to send me free additional adjustment knobs and informed me that they do tend to hiss on the lower settings but it should go away eventually.

I just make sure I have my interior installed including those rubber caps that go ontop of the shock towers, they seem to muffle the sound so that it isn;t a big deal, regardless of my settings.

And finally, I definitely agree, Konis are a much better shock technology, and it is indeed the price that attracts people to Illuminas. I tired long and hard to get the konis but the wallet just wasn't having it.