to much oil to PTE?

[SuperTalon]

Hi John- As soon as I saw your diagram I almost lost my dinner! are you positively, hands down, no joking sure about this? I only ask because I received a picture from PTE when I purchased the turbo showing that I should tap from the fitting right next to the pressure sensor! WTF I went to the grage to verify- lifted the car & shure enough its connected to that fitting next to the sensor! the fitting you show in the diagram is angled down towards the frame- right?

The engine is a fresh rebuild & the oil is as clean & clear as the first day I re-installed the turbo & dropped in new oil (10W40 Castrol GTX) can it still cause damage to the turbo seals?

I have an AGP s/s oil return line kit with 5/8 neoprene hose. I think its big enough though if I decide to run another turbo, I will go with a full -10AN setup with a welded fitting on the oil pan.

The PCV & the valve cover line next to the coolant neck are connected independantly to a vented oil catch can. Is there any adverse effects if I gut out the PCV valve?

Thanks again for you help!

Mario C.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Hi John- As soon as I saw your diagram I almost lost my dinner! are you positively, hands down, no joking sure about this? I only ask because I received a picture from PTE when I purchased the turbo showing that I should tap from the fitting right next to the pressure sensor! WTF I went to the grage to verify- lifted the car & shure enough its connected to that fitting next to the sensor! the fitting you show in the diagram is angled down towards the frame- right?

Mario.. that diagram came from RRE's SS Line VFAQ . It's a bit confusing unless looking at the pic and your filter housing at the same time so I took a pic this morn of how mine was installed:

Note the fitting points down toward the cross member.

On your question of contaminated oil causing the seal to fail (from Forced Performance's FAQ ):

The term "blown seal" is widely used to describe a turbo that has oil coming out of it. In reality a turbocharger seal cannot become damaged until the freeplay of the shaft has increased to the point where the blades of the turbocharger have been rubbing against the housings. Blade contact usually requires more than .035" of side to side movement of the shaft. In some cases it is even possible to rub the blades and still not damage the seals.

So the contaminated oil could cause bearing failure which would likely cause excessive shaft freeplay which would damage the seals.

Regarding the PCV valve. The PCV is a one-way valve that uses a combination of vacuum from the manifold and (+) crankcase pressure to open and boost from the manifold to close. "Gutting" or running a straight fitting ensures that that passageway is open fully 100% of the time.

Hope this helps

 

[SuperTalon]

Hey John- thanks for the picture- I was brain storming last night before going to sleep when I realized that I have an in-line oil fiter connected right before the turbo- I am going to take it apart tomorrow & see if it got clogged enough to open the relief valve- if there is one?- I will post the outcome soon after-

Mario C.

 

[SuperTalon]

I removed the turbo oil filter & opened it to inspect inside- turns out its an empty barrel with just a round piece of what looks like window mesh!- Due to its large size, I thought it would have some kind of true filter assembly inside- any particle smaller than a large bread crumb can easily pass through! disappointed again. I did not have time to disassemble the turbo today- will take it apart tomorrow to look for signs of oil on the turbine wheel.

 

[92awddsm]

This is just an update from my last post. I recently installed a .082 nitrous jet in my feed line as a restictor and I swear, my turbo seems to spool faster than ever. I did have boost set at 24psi before but with the new engine(same 2.0) I have the boost at 18 psi for break in. Before, it would see full boost of 24 ps around 4800 rpm but really start to spool around 4k. Now, I am seeing 18 psi before 4k rpm. It already has 5k miles on it with no problems so I will see how long it lasts with the restricted oil feed.

 

[tsunari]

definitely keep us posted . . . I'm about to put in a GT30R with a -4 SS feed line from RRE that I've been using on my T-25 (running it off of the oil filter housing) I'll let you guys know how it goes as it progresses.

 

[Onefast97GST]

Oddly i just saw this post and couldn't help but reply to it. I just sent my PTE 50 trim turbo out today under warranty. Seal failure and leaking into exhaust. When i took apart i could see oil sitting behind the turbine wheel. I initially dertermined the seals were bad by doing a pressure test last week and hear a great amount of oil bubbling in pan during the test. Some is normal i guess but this was extensive.

Setup is: 4AN feed line, 10AN return line no restrictor. Been waiting over a week to hear back from PTE on what is up with this and what EXACTLY they recommend for an oiling solution. They tell you in the instructions to NOT use a restrictor but how can this be when so many people are having problems.

Once i get turbo back they better have given me answer as to exactly what i need to run, 3AN without restrictor, 4AN with restrictor, or what?

 

[tsunari]

Oddly i just saw this post and couldn't help but reply to it. I just sent my PTE 50 trim turbo out today under warranty. Seal failure and leaking into exhaust. When i took apart i could see oil sitting behind the turbine wheel. I initially dertermined the seals were bad by doing a pressure test last week and hear a great amount of oil bubbling in pan during the test. Some is normal i guess but this was extensive.

Setup is: 4AN feed line, 10AN return line no restrictor. Been waiting over a week to hear back from PTE on what is up with this and what EXACTLY they recommend for an oiling solution. They tell you in the instructions to NOT use a restrictor but how can this be when so many people are having problems.

Once i get turbo back they better have given me answer as to exactly what i need to run, 3AN without restrictor, 4AN with restrictor, or what?

Indeed interesting . . . I just checked FPs website and seems as though they are a bit confused . . .

"The mother of all oil lines. Our oil lines are made of -4AN braided stainless steel line, and are designed to connect to the oil filter housing, for the best possible oil pressure. The line includes a 10mm banjo fitting that attaches directly to the cylinder head (bolt and washers included), and a 90 degree inverted flare fitting that matches the inlet threads on the T25, GT25, GT30, and GT35R cartridges.

The included 10mm banjo bolt features a .8mm oil restrictor orifice to limit oil supply to ball bearing turbochargers. "

So should BB turbos be fed with a .8mm restrictor from the head? even though the best place for pressure would be the fliter housing? WTF

 

[99gst_racer]

So should BB turbos be fed with a .8mm restrictor from the head? even though the best place for pressure would be the fliter housing? WTF

BB turbos require low oil pressure; high oil prssure will kill them. That is why they recommend the head instead of the filter housing as an oil feed source for a BB turbo.

 

[DSM90AWD]

I removed the turbo oil filter & opened it to inspect inside- turns out its an empty barrel with just a round piece of what looks like window mesh!- Due to its large size, I thought it would have some kind of true filter assembly inside- any particle smaller than a large bread crumb can easily pass through! disappointed again. I did not have time to disassemble the turbo today- will take it apart tomorrow to look for signs of oil on the turbine wheel.

That's not good. A typical cheepie oil filter will filter ~60% @10microns and 97% @40microns. I think those BB filters are more for capturing big items that could cause immediate damage.

The OEM filter also likely causes enough of a restriction to reduce overall oil pressure. Since you've tapped pre-filter, maybe it's this added pressure that is causing the problem

 

[SuperTalon]

Oddly i just saw this post and couldn't help but reply to it. I just sent my PTE 50 trim turbo out today under warranty. Seal failure and leaking into exhaust. When i took apart i could see oil sitting behind the turbine wheel. I initially dertermined the seals were bad by doing a pressure test last week and hear a great amount of oil bubbling in pan during the test. Some is normal i guess but this was extensive.

Setup is: 4AN feed line, 10AN return line no restrictor. Been waiting over a week to hear back from PTE on what is up with this and what EXACTLY they recommend for an oiling solution. They tell you in the instructions to NOT use a restrictor but how can this be when so many people are having problems.

Once i get turbo back they better have given me answer as to exactly what i need to run, 3AN without restrictor, 4AN with restrictor, or what?

Sorry to say Onefast97GST- I tried that with my latest turbo & I could not get an straight answer from them- as it is the picture they sent with my turbo led me to install the feed line wrong!

As for the oil pressure limits- I am actually going to the source (Garrett) & try to get an answer from them- but I get the same run around getting transfered from one engineer to another without a clue of what I am talking about! Till now I know that BB turbos dont like to see more than 10 to 15 PSI at idle & no more than 50PSI at full throttle but that info is from ATP turbo- they have allot of good info on their website.

I cant believe that automotive turbos have been around for over 25 years & no one has come out with an RPM sensitive oil pressure regulator- sort of like a 'turbo saver' that protects the turbo from excessive oil pressure- just pre-set it & forget-it! no more blown seals! well if someone wants to get rich there is a good idea!

 

[SuperTalon]

That's not good. A typical cheepie oil filter will filter ~60% @10microns and 97% @40microns. I think those BB filters are more for capturing big items that could cause immediate damage.

The OEM filter also likely causes enough of a restriction to reduce overall oil pressure. Since you've tapped pre-filter, maybe it's this added pressure that is causing the problem

Yes that is exactly what this Russel filter is for- according to their catalog I reviewed today- minimal oil pressure drop & just in case the engine blows up- the turbo is saved.

The oil I removed when I opened the filter looked clean to me- I guess I cant see the small particles that ate out the bearings on the turbo causing seal failure. Hard to believe this was my problem from day one!

 

[tsunari]

Ok, seeing as I'm about to drop my PTE GT3056 in pretty soon . . . I decided to call PTE and ask em exactly what I needed for an oil supply. Talked to Joe Lubrant and he pretty much said whether you get oil from the head or from the filter housing (recommended), the BB turbos need an in-line oil restrictor (which they sell . . . as well as RRE, and several other DSM shops) that mounts right to the center section. Available in both -3AN and -4AN flavors.

So moral of the story as I see it- get the damned restrictor, get a -4AN line, and a 90* adapter to thread into the oil filter housing (Talk to Robert @ RRE if you're lost as to what you may need). If your concerned about heat radiating throught the SS line and heating up the oil, there are thermal sleves that can be slid over the top to reflect ~ 90% of the heat away.

I'll report my findings when I get everything installed and running

 

[tsunari]

So far 1k miles on the motor and everything is great