Timing belt and Vibration (need help)

[rashan]

Sorry for the short post. Had a nice one typed up and browser crashed. Already frustrated to hell and just need some answers.

I have a '97 GS-T 5spd with 95k miles on it and will be driving from Chico to San Francisco around xmas and I don't feel like calling anyone for a ride when my timing belt breaks so I decided to do something about it.

Bought new timing belt, lower belt, water pump, and front main seal and put it all in (yeah I should have bought a tensioner and idler. I ran out of money). Followed the book, didn't let any of the sprockets move at all and threw it all back together. First time doing this on a DOHC so took me and my buddy about 8 hours to do.

I have a lot more power in the 2-3k and 5-6k range. We think the belt may have stretched and was half a tooth off (it looked like it to me when we brought the timing marks together on the intake/exhaust sprockets), not sure. (If it's relevant I spool around 4500).

The problem is I'm noticing vibration at 2500 (neutral) and about 4100 (in gear). That wasn't there before, and as I said, we made sure not to let any sprockets move about.

I honestly don't feel like pulling this damned thing apart again as I won't have the time (nor patience at this rate) with everything going on in life right now, and after all these parts plus tires and brakes I'm broke until Feb. so I can't pay anyone to do it.

Is this a problem that's going to create other problems? (Like crank bearings going out or some bs) or is it something that I can ignore and drive normally?

Please give me some useful information (at this rate I honestly don't care if someone else answered this in another thread. I looked at the hits it gave me and it's possible the balancer is 180 out of phase, but I don't see how if it never moved, nor did it vibrate before).

Thanks to anyone who's of any help.
-Jeremy

 

[spawn87]

didnt read anything about the b/s and the b/s belt.
if you didnt replace or check it then thats one main reason youll have more vibration. try to get your marks lined up again and see if perhaps one is of also.
half-assing only gets you more headaches like your experiencing now.

 

[kimcheefists]

Once you take the timing belt off, you're oil pump sprocket WILL move since there is a counterbalance on the shaft. What you read is most likely what is wrong. When you put everything together, the oil pump sprocket was most likely positioned wrong. What did you use to guide you through the job? Especially since it was your first time, you should've AT LEAST used the vFAQ.

 

[rashan]

Using this:
Amazon.com: Mitsubishi: Eclipse 1990-98 (Chilton's Total Car Care Repair Manual) (9780801989575): The Nichols/Chilton Editors: Books

I wasn't aware that the oil sprocket would move on its own, I don't recall seeing anything about it in the book, I did print out the vfaq a few min ago, looks like I'm in for another assload of work

What's the damage potential of waiting on this?

didnt read anything about the b/s and the b/s belt.
if you didnt replace or check it then thats one main reason youll have more vibration. try to get your marks lined up again and see if perhaps one is of also.
half-assing only gets you more headaches like your experiencing now.

By lower belt that is what I was referring to.

 

[kimcheefists]

There shouldn't be any damage driving like this for a while. The balance shafts are just there for driver/passenger comfort. The only bad thing I could see resulting from your balance shafts being out of time is screws/bolts could come loose from the extra vibration. If it were me though, I'd redo the job ASAP.

 

[rashan]

asap's the issue, my buddy owns the shop and his wife is already pissed we worked on the car till really late last night, so I gotta let her calm down first before we turn around and do it again, plus I wouldn't mind swapping out the idler and tensioner when I reopen it all.


As for comfort I honestly could care less. I'm most likely putting solid mounts in sooner or later so I doubt this will be any worse than that. Only thing I'm worried about is doing damage to the engine. This engine is the only one I'll be owning in the next year or two due to financial issues so I need to make this one last.

The vibration isn't really that annoying, my suspension needs work, if I drive over a really crappy road I can't even tell. Was just that when I noticed it I'm thinking "uh.. What the hell was that?"

 

[tEi Vp DsM]

books are not always acurate..i would check the sprocket,but i would bet my money on a weak tensioner.it happened once to me a long time ago.when you change the timing belt,you MUST ALWAYS replace timimg belt,water pump,tensioner,balance shaft belt,etc.the only time you can get away without changing everything is if for some reason if was just recently done.take it all apart again double check everything and replace everything,and you will be ok...good luck..

 

[kimcheefists]

books are not always acurate..i would check the sprocket,but i would bet my money on a weak tensioner.it happened once to me a long time ago.when you change the timing belt,you MUST ALWAYS replace timimg belt,water pump,tensioner,balance shaft belt,etc.the only time you can get away without changing everything is if for some reason if was just recently done.take it all apart again double check everything and replace everything,and you will be ok...good luck..

Totally agree with this guy. When I did my timing belt, I replaced the hydraulic tensioner, tensioner pulley, idler pulley, balance shaft tensioner pulley, balance shaft belt, water pump, timing belt (obviously), harmonic balancer, and even the front case/oil pump with all new seals and oil pump gears. If you're in there, you might as well do it all..

You also have the option of deleting the balance shafts altogether.

 

[rashan]

Totally agree with this guy. When I did my timing belt, I replaced the hydraulic tensioner, tensioner pulley, idler pulley, balance shaft tensioner pulley, balance shaft belt, water pump, timing belt (obviously), harmonic balancer, and even the front case/oil pump with all new seals and oil pump gears. If you're in there, you might as well do it all..

You also have the option of deleting the balance shafts altogether.

While I'd love to do all that money is the contributing (or rather not) factor.. I'd also like to delete the balance shafts after reading some about them..

Im making a long trip in a few days. I literally have $26 to my name right now, won't be getting paid for two more weeks, and I haven't even paid my rent for Dec. yet. That's how tight things are right now

I was lucky to have saved up for the parts I DID get.. I basically spent my rent money this month so that my car will have a better chance at surviving the 300 miles I'm about to put on it next week. Running out of resources quick fast and in a hurry.

As I said, I replaced the timing belt, oil belt, water pump and front main seal as well as my brakes and tires. I don't have money to spend on my car at all until Feb. so please don't think it's about me being lazy or half-assed or cheap.. just doing the best that I can with what I have...

 

[kimcheefists]

Understandable I guess..Well good luck with the trip then. Hope everything works out.

 

[rashan]

Understandable I guess..Well good luck with the trip then. Hope everything works out.

Thx.. me too

Noticed a crack in my valve cover spark plug galley too (previous owner I'm guessing over tightened one of the valve cover bolts near the spark plugs) and that oil had gotten all over my wires and they're bloated.. Two more things to add to the list of crap that I need to buy ..
Anyone have a spare cover they'd be willing to sell dirt cheap?

So I return to the original question that one person gave their opinion on, but need to hear from a few more ppl before I'm at all comfortable..

Besides comfort and annoyance, will the 180* out of phase thing hurt my engine? If not I say screw it, can wait till Feb when I'll replace everything in there I haven't already.

Otherwise I need to beg for a few favors and see if I can borrow money from people and get back under the car with some wrenches this week (very unrealistic, but gotta do what you gotta do).

 

[spawn87]

Thx.. me too

Noticed a crack in my valve cover spark plug galley too (previous owner I'm guessing over tightened one of the valve cover bolts near the spark plugs) and that oil had gotten all over my wires and they're bloated.. Two more things to add to the list of crap that I need to buy ..
Anyone have a spare cover they'd be willing to sell dirt cheap?

let me look in my stash of goodies i might have an xtra valve cover around. i do however have some kragen wires you could have if you need them for your trip. only put abt 500 miles on those b4 going to my nology wires they are my back ups and work fine.

 

[rashan]

let me look in my stash of goodies i might have an xtra valve cover around. i do however have some kragen wires you could have if you need them for your trip. only put abt 500 miles on those b4 going to my nology wires they are my back ups and work fine.

Man that'd be awesome, I can probably come up with a small amount of money to pay you, those plug wires would be a life saver too, they want 40+ for just the stock ones. ... i miss working on my 71 vw. parts were dirt cheap for those things.. slow as molasses in a siberian winter tho

Anyhow, I'm actually up in Colusa, but I can come to sac probably pretty easy, will be picking my gf up from the airport on tuesday I think it is

There shouldn't be any damage driving like this for a while. The balance shafts are just there for driver/passenger comfort. The only bad thing I could see resulting from your balance shafts being out of time is screws/bolts could come loose from the extra vibration. If it were me though, I'd redo the job ASAP.

Can I get some more verification on this? (it's not that I don't believe him, it makes sense) but I'd like more than one person's thoughts on it!

Thanks again everyone who's contributed

 

[spawn87]

ok so i didnt find any of my old covers but i did find the plug wires so ill pm you my number and text me when your able to meet in sac im located south of southsac.

 

[rashan]

ok so i didnt find any of my old covers but i did find the plug wires so ill pm you my number and text me when your able to meet in sac im located south of southsac.

Sweet awesome dude!
No worries on the cover, it's not a massive priority, I don't have issues unless i push past 5k rpm anyways, so as long as I behave I won't have oil spitting up through the crack. My buddy's getting me a vc for xmas apparently, so no worries there Funny thing is the powder coated ones are like $5 more than the non.

Won't be able to text (no cell) but will give you a ring.

I have to be at sac airport around 11pm on tuesday, might head out that way around 8ish. Downside is I haven't driven around Sac in 7 years or so
(was out of state) so south of sac is good I hope
GPS for the win eh?

Now I just gotta find out if I'ma hurt my car by driving it right now or if I should do some emergency service..
Thanks again btw

 

[TunaTalon]

Can I get some more verification on this? (it's not that I don't believe him, it makes sense) but I'd like more than one person's thoughts on it!

The topic of removing the balance shaft belt has been beaten like a rented mule at http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...aft-belt-merged-6-7-cutting-belts-remove.html.

In short:
It will vibrate more than removing both balance shafts.
The new vibrations will be horizontal and vertical.
The loading on your bearings will not be affected.
For more stories from all sides, read through the reference thread.

 

[rashan]

The topic of removing the balance shaft belt has been beaten like a rented mule at http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...aft-belt-merged-6-7-cutting-belts-remove.html.

In short:
It will vibrate more than removing both balance shafts.
The new vibrations will be horizontal and vertical.
The loading on your bearings will not be affected.
For more stories from all sides, read through the reference thread.

That works, thanks a lot!
I could care less about the vibrations right now, i mean my front and rear mounts are shot and i JUST got tires on the car (needed them for months).

Thanks for the link, will look through it
-Jeremy