time to upgrade to 16g

[dsm1212]

so my t25 is going out and i want to get some power now. i am not sure weather to go with the small 16g or the big. I heard the small spools up faster, but the big has more room to grow, right now i wanna be around 325-350 whp. i don't know what that would translate into for psi but i was thinking somewhere around 20??? My car is completely stock right now so i have been trying to come up with a list of supporting mods i will need so far this is my list.

fmic- $320 ebay

Intake- $50 ebay

guages- $135 glowshift

Turbo- $600 vendor on here

Install kit- $150

bov- $225 not sure yet

dsmlink- $550

fuel pump 255 -$150

650cc injectors $250

oh ya and if i go with dsmlink can i control my boost with that i will i still need to get a boost controller. How important is it for me to upgrade my exhaust because right now i kinda like that it is quiet. Hopefully that list sums it up let me know if i am missing anything

 

[Twistaye]

Upgrading your exhaust will help tremendously by allowing your engine to actually breathe, I would think that's why most people start with intakes/exhaust.. You should definately follow the upgrade path if you're planning on upgrading and shooting for 350ish hp. You might also want to look into ARP headstuds and maybe a MLS or cometic HG if you plan on pushing 20 psi. The stock HG can handle it - but it's always better to be safe than sorry. You'll also need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator if you plan on running a 255 pump. Also with that type of power if you're not careful your clutch is going to start going so it might also be a good time to upgrade to a new aftermarket clutch and a lightened flywheel. Just a couple suggestions to help you out.. And to give you an idea on the exhaust - on my 95 GST with a T25 I noticed about a 20 hp gain on the butt dyno by switching out to an A'pexi Downpipe+Catback (Oh and many many people have recorded more hp than I stated by adding an exhaust/downpipe on actual dynos! Sometimes even in the range of 30hp) Just a couple suggestions that I would give. The a'pexi downpipe & catback are amazing, got both of mine for $600 total and it took us 10 minutes to put it on - no problems whatsoever! Keep us updated with how things are going

 

[viprez586]

Add about $100 for misc. parts, fittings, and unforeseen circumstances along the way.
If your paying 600 for a B16G you might as well go with the E316G from punishment-racing and not have to worry about upgrading for a while yet, with plenty of room to play and pretty quick spool up with excellent streetability.

Punishment-Racing sells it for $559 shipped then you'll need the install kit (you'll need it no matter what) for $159.

Save your money, get a 1g BOV and do the dodge garage mod.

Oh yeah, psi isn't directly related to horsepower. I tell people I'm running 20psi and they all give me the same response -. Really though 20psi on the 14b is not that much CFM, however if you were running 20si on a GT35R then that'd be something to drool about.

 

[kevbojunior]

i would def do a turbo back exhaust first. Just get an e316g, u wont regret it. Maybe a set of cams while your at it.

 

[fatherbubble]

Get rid of the 650 an go 950's since you got DSMLink FIC has some good ones.
Mitsubishi DSM Talon Fuel Injectors- Fuelinjectorclinic

For your gauge's did you look at Autometer there cheaper than the glow an I think a better brand too.
Auto Meter - Gauges

The bov if you don't plain on going over 24psi get a used 1G an crush it. If you end up getting a new one or wanting more psi get the Greddy RS. If you want to be crazy an go 40+ psi go with HKS

As for the install kit You really don't need all the stuff in there. Just a j-pipe an the gaskets. You can reverse your water lines on your 14B to work for the 16G. an buy a new oil line for 20 bucks. An get a better oil return line than they put in that kit.

The ebay stuff I would say no to. But thats me I dont go cheap on my Engine. I dont like worrying if something will fall apart or break latter on. But for the price you cant beat it. If they give you all the intercooler piping. Also if you have a choice in piping go for the 2.5 instead of 2.25. Just encase you decide to go bigger latter on.

 

[dsm1212]

so for right now could i just get the 16g, intercooler, exhaust, and some guages just to stay at stock boost levels? would just those mods make a significant difference? or would i have to worry about running lean and have to get something to control my fuel with and bigger injectors? because i need to replace the turbo soon and if it will run well with just those mods i would rather do that then shell out all the money at once for everything. This way i can grow into fuel mods and then increase the boost am i right in thinking this? or am i going to have to do everthing right now.

 

[jenkinsfan1]

14b??? hes got a T-25

 

[BoostFrenzy]

I am surprised no one else has posted this, but for DSMLink you are also going to need a socketed Eprom ECU out of a 95 Turbo DSM. This is what the DSMLink chip actually plugs into.

As with what others have said, a FPR for the 255 is also needed.

And as for injectors, go big and don't worry. DSMLink can handle them and have them idle like stock.

As for your power goals, a Evo3 16G would better suite that number. Or maybe even something a bit bigger because 400 is said to be the E316G's maximum hp. Just look around and see what you can afford at the moment and decide from there is anything bigger is worth it.

Good luck

 

[dsm1212]

14b??? hes got a T-25

ya i was wondering what he was talking about

 

[BoostFrenzy]

so for right now could i just get the 16g, intercooler, exhaust, and some guages just to stay at stock boost levels? would just those mods make a significant difference? or would i have to worry about running lean and have to get something to control my fuel with and bigger injectors? because i need to replace the turbo soon and if it will run well with just those mods i would rather do that then shell out all the money at once for everything. This way i can grow into fuel mods and then increase the boost am i right in thinking this? or am i going to have to do everthing right now.

Yes. You can get the 16G and run it at stock boost levels. I did on mine for a little while for an inspection and it ran fine. Just don't expect too much out of it. I had stock EVERYTHING on a E3 16G. And at stock boost levels you won't even need the FMIC all that much. It will help a little, but on stock boost not much. If you are tight on cash and need to get it done, just do the turbo with the install kit and wait to stack everything else up and slowly swap parts out.

A word of wisdom though, when you are going to swap the turbo, PB blaster or Liquid wrench is your friend. Really helps with not breaking turbo studs.

 

[dsm1212]

alright thanks for the help well when i do start upgrading my fuel system what should i use to control it? i don't really know much about controlling a fuel system

 

[BoostFrenzy]

alright thanks for the help well when i do start upgrading my fuel system what should i use to control it? i don't really know much about controlling a fuel system

To control the pressure, any good AFPR will do. Just set it to the stock fuel pressure and it will do the rest.

As to tune it, you have a few choices. If you don't want to find an Eprom ECU, then a Apexi AFC will work. It is far inferior to DSMLink but it can tune out the larger fuel amounts that the bigger injectors are pulsing. But with DSMLink, you get far better control.

 

[dsm1212]

how difficult is it to find an eprom ecu and to use dsmlink

 

[BoostFrenzy]

how difficult is it to find an eprom ecu and to use dsmlink

Not too hard. People sell them on the Classified section on here when they go to an EMS or are parting out. Sometime you can even get a deal with the ECU and DSMLink as a package. Just check out the 4G63 parts section on here and do a search for Eprom.

As for DSMLink. You tell Tom what you want the chips base settings to be and it is sent to you that way. From there, you tune it with a laptop. Tuning is a lot easier with a wide band gauge as well. It reads out your actual Air/Fuel ratio instead of the narrow band which guesses "lean" or "rich" off of the stock o2 sensor.

 

[tkelly27]

Isn't the AFC limited to 650 injectors? You are also unable to control spark events, which is a big deal in tuning, and for stutter box and NLTS (No Lift To Shift). If you plan on growing out of the 16g, or pushing your setup, it's totally worth it for the 'link.

For what it's worth, my car has had a big 16g since I've owned it. I thought it was a 14b, and I've never noticed it taking a long time to spool up. In my opinion, the most important mod to turbo spool up is the exhuast. My muffler fell off on the way to my girlfriends house and it was the best mod that's ever happened to the car. I guess that's what you get for a $900 car... Anyway, I've found the pre-turbo setup makes a difference in turbo spool, but post turbo exhaust is really what makes the difference spool up wise.

I'd get a SS oil feed line if I were you. The banjo BS has been bothering me for a long time now.

A gauge is a gauge, I've found cheap ones work just as well as expensive ones. 1G BOV and bigger injectors FTW. You never know, you might want to run E85.

 

[dsmmsd]

agreed with the e316g...sounds better for your situation. as for exhaust im still running stock 14b on my 1g and i have full 3" downpipe back and i love it even on my stock turbo

 

[the_mork]

I wouldn't necessarily go bigger than a 16g, someone stated that your goals might be better suited by something larger but a 16g can take you into the 10s so you need to ask yourself "will my car ever go faster than that?" If the answer is yes then look for something else, if it isn't then a 16g is perfect for you. As for small, big, or evo I chose the evo but not I wonder if it was really the right choice, I'm not pushing big power and I don't have a lot of mods so at this point and for the near future the best 16g would be the small, but I do expect to grow quite a bit so I think I'll eventually pass out of that area but maybe not into the realm where the evo3 16g is really all that beneficial. Something to think about.

 

[dsm1212]

alright thanks for your help guys so would you all agree that a small 16g would be better for me? does it have noticeably faster spool time than an e316g or big 16g? also i think i am going to start looking for a good turbo back exhaust, what do you recommend?

 

[viprez586]

ya i was wondering what he was talking about

It was for reference.

A T-25 at 10psi will not push as much CFM or LB/min compared to a GT35R at 10psi.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

alright thanks for your help guys so would you all agree that a small 16g would be better for me? does it have noticeably faster spool time than an e316g or big 16g? also i think i am going to start looking for a good turbo back exhaust, what do you recommend?

No. The small 16g wouldn't be enough for the goal you have set unless you want that number on higher octane fuel. With cams and a good tune, 350hp is achievable on a low to mid 20's PSI boost level on a E316G. I think you may have gotten a little confused by the_mork's posting. I was saying go a little bit bigger like a 18g or something like that so you could achieve that power goal at a lower PSI. If you are looking for that power on a 16G, then the Evo3 is the one you want. And about the spool up, they are going to be about the same. Very little difference even with the Evo3 16G because the internals are lighter then the others.

 

[fatherbubble]

The Evo III 16G is a great turbo. Lighter than the big an small 16G an flows more for the same price. The 400hp that they say its rated for isnt the top end of it. With work to them an better parts on them they can get more than that. But even if you dont want alot of HP now the Evo III on stock boost at 7psi will give you 275hp untuned. Acording to my DSMLink pull I did when I first installed my turbo. I needed to rise my advance on it too the Torque was 285lbs. Funny to me more Torque than HP.

 

[chavez408]

Seriously, you have a long way to go. Even with simple mods like that. I wish it was as simple as jut buying parts and putting them together but it is not. If you have to replace the turbo now than just get the 16g and the install kit and just run it at stock boost. You won't see a difference until you start to mod around it. Start reading and researching is the best option. We all need to start somewhere

 

[BoostFrenzy]

The Evo III 16G is a great turbo. Lighter than the big an small 16G an flows more for the same price. The 400hp that they say its rated for isnt the top end of it. With work to them an better parts on them they can get more than that. But even if you dont want alot of HP now the Evo III on stock boost at 7psi will give you 275hp untuned. Acording to my DSMLink pull I did when I first installed my turbo. I needed to rise my advance on it too the Torque was 285lbs. Funny to me more Torque than HP.

DSMLink has been known to be inaccurate at times. I found this while roaming the tech section. This is a Dyno of a Evo316G on a built engine.

15 PSI: 290 ft/lbs 344 WHP (crept to 20 PSI)
20 PSI: 344 ft/lbs 344 WHP
25 PSI: 400 ft/lbs 375 WHP
30 PSI: 436 ft/lbs 397 WHP (fell to 23 PSI at redline)

 

[dsm1212]

Seriously, you have a long way to go. Even with simple mods like that. I wish it was as simple as jut buying parts and putting them together but it is not. If you have to replace the turbo now than just get the 16g and the install kit and just run it at stock boost. You won't see a difference until you start to mod around it. Start reading and researching is the best option. We all need to start somewhere

so you think i should just get a 16g and put it on and as i get the money do the supporting mods as i go? And boostfrenzy you say i should get an 18g because i am going to want to have more power later on and have room to grow. so would i be albe to run an 18g right now at stock boost levels without damaging anything and then start getting the supporting mods? and if i do it this way after i get the turbo how should my list look what order should i start getting thinks.
boost guage
afpr
injectors
fuel pump

or does it really matter what order i go in after that

 

[jenkinsfan1]

Are you going to drag with this car or just show off to your friends or are you trying to beat your friends whats you goal HP and the 1/4 mi? If you are looking to get into 10sand 11s go with a

FP 3065 Turbo
1000cc Injectors
255 and 190 LPH Fuel Pump rewired
good suspension and shock play a big roll.
FMIC
Shep trans.com (rebulit tranny
2600 clutch and pressure plate 6 puck
new tires and 17 in rims that are light
D-Link
LSD
and recirc the BOV har pip everything you can
and you will be able to "match pretty much everything you see that looks fast"


In no way am I talking about street racing so dont give me crap about it.