Time For a New Clutch & Performance Advice

[RuthlessZ]

Okay guys, first I tried searching, and this isn't your normal clutch thread. If I messed up by posting sorry in advance

July 3rd I purchased a 1991 Talon TSI AWD, car has ~17k on engine rebuild 210k original miles. This is my first car, yes I knew what I was getting into. So before I ask my question I'm just gonna say what I've done since getting the car.

1. Oil Change Mobil 1 10w30 Synthetic
2. Turned Boost Down From 14 PSI to 10 PSI
3. Installed an AEM Wideband
4. Installed a Walbro 190
5. Installed a Fuelab 515 AFPR

It already had:

1. Big 16G Turbo
2. Apexi N1 Exhaust
3. Turbo XS Boost Controller
4. Glow Shift Boost Gauge (In the stupidest location ever, the 1G cigarette lighter hole)
5. FMIC

Now recently my power steering pump took a dump, leaked fluid all over my alternator, alternator has been smoking though putting out the right voltage. I'm waiting to see what it does. My new pump will be here Monday, now onto the question.

I learned to drive stick on this car, not sure what clutch is in it. Last night I raced my friends WRX from a roll, I would've beat him, sorry guys, when I went to shift, here is the order of events:
1. Hit 6.5k
2. Clutch In
3. Shift to 3rd
4. Clutch Out
5. Jerk/Bucking CEL On, car will NOT accelerate
6. Clutch In
7. Put Car in 4th
8. Clutch Out
9. Car runs smooth as butter

What the hell, I raced my other friends Corolla form a stop and it did the same thing going from 1-2, still won though. The denominator seems to be high rev shifting. No matter what when I shifted at highish RPMS anything above 5.5k the car would jerk and buck and refuse to accelerate, upped the gear, ran fine. My clutch engages way later pedal wise than when I bought the car, so I'm 90% sure it's a bad clutch but want more experienced opinions, I've only been interested in cars for like 3 months.

Now onto performance advice I just wanted to run my plans by people who know whats up. Along with everything I've done, I want to get DSMLink V3, get my ECU socketed, and get some FIC 750cc injectors, If my clutch is indeed bad, then I will be getting an ACT 2600. My goal is ~350-400WHP. Sorry for the wall of text guys, I was trying to be thorough. Also my idle is super lean 15-16, WOT is 10.5-11.3ish.

Also here it is I feel I have an obligation to mod this car right with how nice it is for a 1g. So please help guys, Thanks in advance.

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ETA: I've only run 93 Octane in this car.

 

[Styxyr]

Curiosity, did you hear a loud pop/snap when it happened the first time, then the clutch kinda felt shorter?

 

[Joethefallen23]

For what it's worth, you won't have the car much longer if you continue to race it on the street. Racing kills....keep it on the track.

 

[Styxyr]

For what it's worth, you won't have the car much longer if you continue to race it on the street. Racing kills....keep it on the track.

I completely agree with that statement, I've had my fun. Now I've learned to stay off streets when I race But on topic, if what I asked happened, then chances are you broke a pressure plate, I wouldn't doubt it if you raced alot, cheap pressure plate being put through that much stress breaks them, that's what happened to my ACT 2600 pressure plate on a Competition stage 1 clutch. Btw I also don't recommend ACT!

 

[RuthlessZ]

For what it's worth, you won't have the car much longer if you continue to race it on the street. Racing kills....keep it on the track.

No worries pal, flashlight drags. I'm no hooligan. I don't blame you for saying that though.

Curiosity, did you hear a loud pop/snap when it happened the first time, then the clutch kinda felt shorter?

I honestly don't know, the first time it happened I didn't have the slightest idea what happened. didn't notice anything of that sort, though it's always fairly violent sounding.

I completely agree with that statement, I've had my fun. Now I've learned to stay off streets when I race But on topic, if what I asked happened, then chances are you broke a pressure plate, I wouldn't doubt it if you raced alot, cheap pressure plate being put through that much stress breaks them, that's what happened to my ACT 2600 pressure plate on a Competition stage 1 clutch. Btw I also don't recommend ACT!

That's surprising most people seem to approve of ACT what other options would you suggest? Also if I broke the pressure plate would the car still be drivable? I've still been driving it, just taking it easy.

 

[Styxyr]

Personally I'm using a Competition Stage 2 clutch and pressure plate with the OEM throwout bearing they gave with the kit. It seems ok so far, I'm about 350 miles into the break in. When it feels broken in I'll be able to tell more, It's only roughly 80% more torque hold, but at 18 PSI idk if It's enough, the previous wasn't enough..had to double clutch or it wouldn't shift above 5k, just would stop till the RPMs dropped, after roughly 6 months of daily driving and pulls here and there it snapped, The pressure plated was less than a year old. I feel like I should have gone with the Stage 3 6 puck disk though.

I would also recommend Competition Clutches.

 

[RuthlessZ]

Personally I'm using a Competition Stage 2 clutch and pressure plate with the OEM throwout bearing they gave with the kit. It seems ok so far, I'm about 350 miles into the break in. When it feels broken in I'll be able to tell more, It's only roughly 80% more torque hold, but at 18 PSI idk if It's enough, the previous wasn't enough..had to double clutch or it wouldn't shift above 5k, just would stop till the RPMs dropped, after roughly 6 months of daily driving and pulls here and there it snapped, The pressure plated was less than a year old. I feel like I should have gone with the Stage 3 6 puck disk though.

I would also recommend Competition Clutches.

Is that the EXEDY Clutch? Sorry just trying to understand you. I know nothing about clutches, the 2600 seemed to be held in high appraise so that's what I was leaning towards, also can you explain what you mean by it would stop until the RPMS dropped? .

 

[Styxyr]

Is that the EXEDY Clutch? Sorry just trying to understand you. I know nothing about clutches, the 2600 seemed to be held in high appraise so that's what I was leaning towards, also can you explain what you mean by it would stop until the RPMS dropped? .

ACT clutches just have problems with pressure plates snapping prongs off...which then requires either a new pressure plate or new kit...and nobody likes to pull the transmission out when not needed haha Competition and Clutch Masters are two different brands that I recommend and like, never had issues with either one of them. What I meant by it stopped until the RPMs dropped down is, I guess I have alot more torque, the pressure plate couldn't hold it and it wouldn't let it go to the next gear, you could try all you want, but it wouldn't let it go in...RPMs dropped down under 5k and it would go right in, unless I double clutch. Double clutching is when you clutch in, shift out of gear, clutch up, clutch back down then go into the next gear. Hope that clears some of it. I can link the competition clutch I ordered if you'd like.

 

[RuthlessZ]

ACT clutches just have problems with pressure plates snapping prongs off...which then requires either a new pressure plate or new kit...and nobody likes to pull the transmission out when not needed haha Competition and Clutch Masters are two different brands that I recommend and like, never had issues with either one of them. What I meant by it stopped until the RPMs dropped down is, I guess I have alot more torque, the pressure plate couldn't hold it and it wouldn't let it go to the next gear, you could try all you want, but it wouldn't let it go in...RPMs dropped down under 5k and it would go right in, unless I double clutch. Double clutching is when you clutch in, shift out of gear, clutch up, clutch back down then go into the next gear. Hope that clears some of it. I can link the competition clutch I ordered if you'd like.

Yeah I'd appreciate that, also thanks for the clarification. I actually picked up a used ACT 2600 Clutch Kit for $40 so we'll see. The clutch disc measured at .30 so it's got about half life left in theory.

 

[Styxyr]

Competition Stage 2 street/race kit That is the clutch kit I put on my car about 3 weeks ago, as for Clutch Masters I don't know much about their stuff for DSMs, but I've used their clutches on previous cars in the past. Never had issues with them and I know people with DSMs that love their clutches. That clutch should be fine to use, just pickup a new throwout bearing, always get an OEM one. and pickup a new pressure plate if you use that clutch. Just my opinion

 

[RuthlessZ]

Competition Stage 2 street/race kit That is the clutch kit I put on my car about 3 weeks ago, as for Clutch Masters I don't know much about their stuff for DSMs, but I've used their clutches on previous cars in the past. Never had issues with them and I know people with DSMs that love their clutches. That clutch should be fine to use, just pickup a new throwout bearing, always get an OEM one. and pickup a new pressure plate if you use that clutch. Just my opinion

I appreciate it man, another silly question what do the numbers mean? They seem to all be the same regardless of brand 2100, 2600, etc.

Also that's considerably cheaper than ACT 2600 new kit, so if it's a better option I'd be happy. Thanks man.

 

[Styxyr]

I appreciate it man, another silly question what do the numbers mean? They seem to all be the same regardless of brand 2100, 2600, etc.

Also that's considerably cheaper than ACT 2600 new kit, so if it's a better option I'd be happy. Thanks man.

Uhh, the numbers are a bit harder to explain, ACT numbers count up, 2100 is essentially stock, 2600 is the upgraded version and so on and so forth, although, I think ACTs strongest clutches are like 1200 or something...could be wrong, Competition rates theirs in Stages, 1 is essentially stock, Stage 2 is a stronger clutch with a slightly harder pedal, although I don't really feel a difference. Stage 3 is a 4 or 6 puck disc that engages much harder....like, on and off no slipping, and it keeps going up for them. Clutch Masters I would have to look up again. But most companies count up. Each clutch has specific torque holds over stock, Comp stage 2 is roughly 80% over stock, I believe the ACT 2600 is about the same also...but bad experience with them Help at all?

 

[RuthlessZ]

Uhh, the numbers are a bit harder to explain, ACT numbers count up, 2100 is essentially stock, 2600 is the upgraded version and so on and so forth, although, I think ACTs strongest clutches are like 1200 or something...could be wrong, Competition rates theirs in Stages, 1 is essentially stock, Stage 2 is a stronger clutch with a slightly harder pedal, although I don't really feel a difference. Stage 3 is a 4 or 6 puck disc that engages much harder....like, on and off no slipping, and it keeps going up for them. Clutch Masters I would have to look up again. But most companies count up. Each clutch has specific torque holds over stock, Comp stage 2 is roughly 80% over stock, I believe the ACT 2600 is about the same also...but bad experience with them Help at all?

Interesting, that sounds confusing, thanks though. Aside from this clutch business do you think I'll be good with my planned mods? Anything I'm forgetting?

 

[Styxyr]

Honestly I'd upgrade injectors and get a fuel management system to go with that, I'm kind of surprised you haven't hit a fuel cut yet, unless you already had bigger injectors sorry if I'm missing something also, half asleep atm haha, 11:15 pm here and I woke up at 7 am. Did you rewire your wallbro?

 

[WES_393]

The clutch itself won't throw a CEL though. Did the CEL turn off right after the issue cleared up?

Also, 10.5-11.3 at WOT is pretty lean for stock. Make sure the BOV is recirculated back into the intake. If so, my next step would be a boost leak test.

ACT has been the clutch of choice for many years, but their failure rate isn't something they brag about. Today there's quite a few alternatives. I'm personally running a South Bend series clutch and will never go back to an ACT.

What I meant by it stopped until the RPMs dropped down is, I guess I have alot more torque, the pressure plate couldn't hold it and it wouldn't let it go to the next gear, you could try all you want, but it wouldn't let it go in...RPMs dropped down under 5k and it would go right in, unless I double clutch.

This is caused by the clutch dragging, not by torque.

 

[RuthlessZ]

Honestly I'd upgrade injectors and get a fuel management system to go with that, I'm kind of surprised you haven't hit a fuel cut yet, unless you already had bigger injectors sorry if I'm missing something also, half asleep atm haha, 11:15 pm here and I woke up at 7 am. Did you rewire your wallbro?

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. future plans are:
FIC 750cc Injectors
DSM Link V3

Everything I listed above are things I already did. Also I used to hit fuel cut, it went away after I put the Fuelab AFPR in.

The clutch itself won't throw a CEL though. Did the CEL turn off right after the issue cleared up?

Also, 10.5-11.3 at WOT is pretty lean for stock. Make sure the BOV is recirculated back into the intake. If so, my next step would be a boost leak test.

Yeah sorry should've specified, as soon as I put the car in a higher gear CEL went away. Shit is that really lean I was under a false impression it was fairly rich, dammit. This is what happens when people upgrade turbos and not injectors I guess. I'll watch it again tomorrow, If I'm WOT for more than a second it pins at 10.1 but that's about as rich as it goes. I knew I was running lean which is why I turned my boost down. I've done a boost leak test. That was the result I know I still have a few small leaks, some at the injectors and at the empty vacuum lines on the intake. Thanks again guys I love the DSM community.

 

[Styxyr]

The clutch itself won't throw a CEL though. Did the CEL turn off right after the issue cleared up?

Also, 10.5-11.3 at WOT is pretty lean for stock. Make sure the BOV is recirculated back into the intake. If so, my next step would be a boost leak test.

ACT has been the clutch of choice for many years, but their failure rate isn't something they brag about. Today there's quite a few alternatives. I'm personally running a South Bend series clutch and will never go back to an ACT.



This is caused by the clutch dragging, not by torque.

Someone told me it was torque, what makes the clutch drag?

 

[RuthlessZ]

To clarify, endgame mod list things I don't have in bold.

1. Big 16G Turbo
2. Apexi N1 Exhaust
3. Turbo XS Boost Controller
4. Glow Shift Boost Gauge (In the stupidest location ever, the 1G cigarette lighter hole)
5. FMIC
6. AEM Wideband
7. Walbro 190
8. Fuelab 515 AFPR
9. FIC 750cc Injectors
10. DSM Link V3

Also my BOV is recirculated, but I'm fairly certain it's a garbage Ebay BOV.

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Here is an album of my Engine Bay if it can tell you anything.

 

[Styxyr]

That does look fairly cheap. I have a Greddy Type S ebay PoS I need to replace

 

[RuthlessZ]

That does look fairly cheap. I have a Greddy Type S ebay PoS I need to replace

Haha, no my valve cover goes to where it should what I'm holding in that picture is my coolant overflow hose, that the goofball before me decided he didn't need. I've since replaced an overflow tank.

The hell did you edit your post before I replied ?

 

[WES_393]

Yeah sorry should've specified, as soon as I put the car in a higher gear CEL went away. Shit is that really lean I was under a false impression it was fairly rich, dammit. This is what happens when people upgrade turbos and not injectors I guess. I'll watch it again tomorrow, If I'm WOT for more than a second it pins at 10.1 but that's about as rich as it goes. I knew I was running lean which is why I turned my boost down.

So for the most part, when your driving at WOT, the A/F ratio stays pegged at 10 until you let off? That would be completely normal. It's not exactly bad to run in the 11:1 range at WOT, but it shouldn't happen on a stock tune.

I would try to pull the codes. Either borrow an OBDI compatible scanner from a parts store, or pull them yourself. The stored trouble codes (or lack of) will help point to the issue.

Also, do you know what's tied into your BOV line?

 

[Styxyr]

So for the most part, when your driving at WOT, the A/F ratio stays pegged at 10 until you let off? That would be completely normal. It's not exactly bad to run in the 11:1 range at WOT, but it shouldn't happen on a stock tune.

I would try to pull the codes. Either borrow an OBDI compatible scanner from a parts store, or pull them yourself. The stored trouble codes (or lack of) will help point to the issue.

Also, do you know what's tied into your BOV line?

It looks the same as mine, and if I had to guess, it would be his MBC.

@RuthlessZ I edited cause I realized it just looked odd, after looking more I realized it was right

 

[RuthlessZ]

So for the most part, when your driving at WOT, the A/F ratio stays pegged at 10 until you let off? That would be completely normal. It's not exactly bad to run in the 11:1 range at WOT, but it shouldn't happen on a stock tune.

I would try to pull the codes. Either borrow an OBDI compatible scanner from a parts store, or pull them yourself. The stored trouble codes (or lack of) will help point to the issue.

Also, do you know what's tied into your BOV line?

Yeah it's 10.1 if I'm WOT for more than a second and stays pegged there until I let off. Will I have go codes If I have no constant CEL? I think that it's just a vacuum line, I'll check today and get back to you.

 

[ctspoolintsi]

i have used act 2600 plenty of times and its always been a success . 6 puck unsprung

 

[Styxyr]

i have used act 2600 plenty of times and its always been a success . 6 puck unsprung

Just from my experience I've had a prong break off the pressure plate and shoot clean out of my bell housing. Luckily didn't hit anything else as it flew out. From what I've read, they are notorious for snapping in DSMs.