Thoughts on Maf-t setup?

[SevensOdd]

Hey what are your thoughts on the Maf-t setup? Blow-thru. My MAS is completely DEAD and this seems like a great upgrade/replacement. A bit pricey tho...are there other paths to take? If so what how do they stack up? Thanks

 

[DGajre777]

www.pocketlogger.com

 

[bling5tatus]

well i dunno what that is..can u explain what id need for that please?

ds-map - cheap practical speed density setup (cheaper than any of the above options)

 

[dsm-onster]

DSMap is not cheaper than a safc setup or a maft setup. Remeber to add the cost of a $200+ eprom ecu and having it socketed.

It is about as affordable and a keydiver chip and using an safc to fine tune. Not knocking that option at all. Both dsmap and the keydiver/safc combo seam to work well from what I've seen.

 

[1qkfwd]

From what I have been reading from DSmap you have to buy a wideband.

I have run the MAF-T setup No AFC on two cars now with no problems.
First car 16G FWD and 550's 11.8 @120
Second car GT 14 AWD, on dead stock bottom end, 30LBS boost, 650's, 11.9 @ 118

Both cars streetable
Both cars tuned by palm
Both cars 23+ degrees of timing
You can run your BOV open with no problems
If you blow off your IC pipe your car can still get you home
Plug and play only one wire to tap

I do see that $800 is a bit pricey for that setup.
Check e-bay or even you local pawn shops for a Palm
I can go to a local wrecking yard and get 3" GM sensors all day for $35

There is one downside that I have found with the MAF-T setup and it is not enough adjustments for tuning. But if your in the right ballpark the ECU does the rest.
Or Gen 2 is worth looking into.

AFC/2g maf works good and is simple to use there seems to be more downsides though.
Venting BOV suffers
Blow off IC pipe and car dies or runs poorly
Weather/Altitude changes you have to compensate for
Have to tap ECU wires

AFC plus side, Is a bit cheaper than MAF-T setup

 

[dsm-onster]

Excellent ET!! I PMed you.

 

[Nanan]

I ran the GM MAS/MAF-T and DSMLink combo for a few months and to tell you the truth I hated it. Getting a good tune was a pita and a half then when you think you finally have it all set the temp and humidity change and the tune is all off again. The other problem with the GM MAS is the fact it wasn't made for the intake temps we see, as the MAS gets hotter its readings become less reliable, ie driving for more then a few miles.

I posted some info in another thread, will edit it in shortly...

 

[dsm-onster]

Don't operate in blow thru. Then you'll have a maf that is oem consistant and can meter over 60 lbs/min. The "pppssshhhhttt!" isn't worth it. But if you're having problem w/ your stock maf in the stock location on your firehawk, then there's something to this. . .

 

[Nanan]

I ran the GM MAS/MAF-T and DSMLink combo for a few months and to tell you the truth I hated it. Getting a good tune was a pita and a half then when you think you finally have it all set the temp and humidity change and the tune is all off again. The other problem with the GM MAS is the fact it wasn't made for the intake temps we see, as the MAS gets hotter its readings become less reliable, ie driving for more then a few miles.

I posted some info in another thread, will edit it in shortly...

As far as the MAS/MAF goes don't bother with it, I spent 3 weeks 3-4 hours a day trying to tune my car on the GM MAS and every time I would get different results. The problem is the GM MAS was designed to be used in NA cars with an intake temp of -30 to 120deg F, but with turbo cars we often see intake temps in excess of 250F on a hard pull even on a good FMIC and a nice 70's day. The only way I was able to get any good numbers was to use a NO2 bottle to soak the FMIC down to frosty temps before every test run, this gets kind of expensive and isn't the best way to do it as your tuning the car for a condition that isn't very common outside of drag racing.

 

[staticbrainwash]

I ran the GM MAS/MAF-T and DSMLink combo for a few months and to tell you the truth I hated it. Getting a good tune was a pita and a half then when you think you finally have it all set the temp and humidity change and the tune is all off again. The other problem with the GM MAS is the fact it wasn't made for the intake temps we see, as the MAS gets hotter its readings become less reliable, ie driving for more then a few miles.

I posted some info in another thread, will edit it in shortly...

That is very true. You need to understand how a gm maf work in order to under stand it's flaws.

It's set up on a temp based system. In drawthrough, the coils heat and as air passes over them, they cool, registering through logarithm airflow. As more air gets pulled in, the cooler the coils get.

But on a turbo car, in blowthrough, you're putting the maf post turbo and post IC. So in theory, you will have very fluctuating air temps still, and pressurized air doesn't measure the same as drawn air. It cant keep up with the fluctuation, and also in some cases the air temps get very close to the heating element temps that it can't' give an accurate reading.

So either run it in drawthru, get a 2g maf (which, whoever said before it's finicky about climates and altitudes is wrong), or just get MS or dsmap and run speed density. My vote is for SD!

 

[bling5tatus]

DSMap is not cheaper than a safc setup or a maft setup. Remeber to add the cost of a $200+ eprom ecu and having it socketed.

It is about as affordable and a keydiver chip and using an safc to fine tune. Not knocking that option at all. Both dsmap and the keydiver/safc combo seam to work well from what I've seen.

If you don't already have an eprom, you're slacking anyway. Also, I would think that you'd need an eprom with a keydiver chip to properly tune the maf-t anyway.... so really, what does this silly dsm-link thing do? It merely costs a lot of money to do exactly the same thing you could do, with the hardware you would already have if you're considering that as an option anyway, as ds-map..... except for easy, out of the box, anyone can set it up and use it.... oh did I mention it's expensive. My friend took the maf-t off his car for a reason, because it's FOR CHEVY'S and is a hack of a fix for a problem with inadequate air metering on a stock dsm.!!

I am not trying to start a religous war here, but if you are considering any of the options that have been mentioned in this thread, you're better off having an eprom anyway.... so really I do not see that as a factor, nor do I see the wb o2 as a factor.... because if you're ACTUALLY serious about tuning properly you will have a wb. Same thing with a logger (this can be negated if you're going the dsmlink route). So, compare the prices of two sensors and an ostrich emu (for ds-map), a laptop + hardware involved (for dsm-link), or the gm mas + maf-t + safc (for fine tuning).... the cheapest will be the two sensors and ostrich for ds-map. Now, you can take the safc out of the equation and that would probably make the prices closer to being the same, but the tunability that ds-map offers over the gm-maf is leaps and bounds above.

 

[DGajre777]

Instead of getting a MAFT + SAFC, just buy the MAFT Gen II and hook it up to a wideband.

In response to the post above, the cheapest would be a Stage III chip for $140 with a custom fuel map for your injectors and 11.5:1 A/F ratio (so you don't need a wideband).

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

MAFT + chip+ blow through = tuning extremely hard. .02
[Edit] Nearly impossible to get a consistently good tune. I'm going back to the draw through set up.

 

[LTUDSM]

well with maft genII tune the fuel is not that hard at all it took me a while to understand all those meanings that maft genII have but after all that im happy that i got a GM Maf setup bought a wideband connected to the Maft genII unit and call it a day

 

[staticbrainwash]

well with maft genII tune the fuel is not that hard at all it took me a while to understand all those meanings that maft genII have but after all that im happy that i got a GM Maf setup bought a wideband connected to the Maft genII unit and call it a day

HOLY RUN ON SENTENCE BATMAN!

 

[SevensOdd]

the 800 came from the cost of piping (IC piping and intake pipe) along with the maf-t/couplers/GM mas. Maf-t setup. Im happy to see all these replies, tons of different opinions, but take this into consideration. i have never tuned. ive read basic FAQ write-ups on it. So pretty much the easiest setup is what im looking for. From reading the opinions I dont think im liking the Maf-t setup with the varying weather conditions altering the tune. Speed density. I read the site, but its still somewhat greek to me .

 

[bling5tatus]

Instead of getting a MAFT + SAFC, just buy the MAFT Gen II and hook it up to a wideband.

In response to the post above, the cheapest would be a Stage III chip for $140 with a custom fuel map for your injectors and 11.5:1 A/F ratio (so you don't need a wideband).

I agree about the stage three dsmchip, and congrats to Jeff for figuring that stuff out, but I still say that's paying someone else for the research that you can do for free.

 

[LTUDSM]

HOLY RUN ON SENTENCE BATMAN!

what do you mean?

 

[staticbrainwash]

Even with a chip you need to tune.

If he's looking for the easiest. Thats where i suggest he go. 2g maf, 550's or 650's with a chip, and an safc. He can learn to fine tune with the safc since most of the major legwork is done with the chip.

Easy, safe, efficient.

 

[staticbrainwash]

what do you mean?

You don't know what a run on sentence is? You didn't capitalize ONCE, you didn't punctuate ONCE. Horrible english usage man.

 

[SevensOdd]

It means you have no puncuation marks. Periods and commas and what not. Oh and hey what would the eprom replace in reguards as SAFC/Speed density/ms map or whatever. i know you can control idle speed, fuel cut, comp for injector. Seems like a good thing to have.

 

[LTUDSM]

You don't know what a run on sentence is? You didn't capitalize ONCE, you didn't punctuate ONCE. Horrible english usage man.

im european man still learning, there is no reason to blame me,i think that they don't have the rule that, if youre not american you cant go on forums

 

[staticbrainwash]

Thats fine, no one knew that man. Just, you can type well, get those punctuation marks in there.

 

[LTUDSM]

most of the people could understand without any punctuation marks in the sentence,probably you understand that too,and yeah who cares about those punctuation marks? is that a big deal

 

[SevensOdd]

No its not a big deal..lets get back on subject.

 

[staticbrainwash]

It's forum rules. Which you should have read when you signed up for the site.


Regardless, if you want easy, my vote would be away from maft just because it's so irregular to tune with. 2g maf is a much better choice for ease of operation.