2G The dreaded parasitic draw!

[Musashi450]

Hey guys,
So here's my deal. I'm doing an entire overhaul on the car and everything was ripped out and put back in. So far I've gost most everything working except for a heating issue I need to figure out and then this charging problem. It started when I went to go start after everything was in. I noticed the battery had no charge, jumped it and it all turned over. Figured I'm good to go, but then came back the next day and the battery is dead. Ok I needed a new battery anyway so I went with an optima red top. Same problem occurs. I've checked the voltage while the car is running and its about 13.5V. This means the alternator is good right? I've rechecked all my grounds and with the exception of one smaller one that I can't put on yet, they all look good. I was also reading in other posts that one can have internal shorts which may cause drains. The fact that I dont have doors, hatch, and hood on the car wouldn't matter would it? Also no lights are being kept on at any time. Guys this is driving me crazy so any help is greatly appreciated and I'll keep everyone informed. To be honest electrical isn't really my thing so I'm hoping to get the help of a wiseman on this that has some good experience with that.

 

[HighPSIRacing]

I've found one of the most common reasons for that is loose, corroded connections. Take your batt cables off the batt and give them a good scrub with a wire brush. If that doesn't work take the pos connection off your starter and your ground wire off the frame and clean those up too. Sounds like your Alt is working fine. Good luck!

L8

 

[chicagoboostin]

well.. your door and hatch might have a play on the problem, if the doors are open there is a little witch on the bottom near the back of each door where if its not pushed in the interior lights and dash light will stay on. i was just quickly reading through your thread and i didnt see anything that you have done to push these switches in.

 

[Musashi450]

wow quick replies thanks.

Sorry I should have mentioned that the door pins were taken off the doors. I'm in the process of checking the starter I disconnected the harness to the motor in hopes that maybe this kill the circuit but I just realized thats probably a circuit to the starter motor itself which probably wouldn't be drawing power. Tonight I plan on getting all the way to the started and cleaning it all up as highPSI mentioned.

 

[luv2rallye]

see http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54846

 

[Musashi450]

Thanx for the guide. I actually had come across that earlier and had started running some of those tests but my multimeter said I was getting no draw?! knowing this was wrong I was looking at my multimeter and found two blown fuses which I believe is no allowing it to read the amperage of anything. So I'm on my way to the store tonight to get those fuses and then run that exact test. If I can find the circuit that will be great but I believe thats when the problem is going to start. Just systematically going through each component. Hopefully like the guide says though, its something I've just over looked.

 

[Musashi450]

Here's an update for you guys. I haven't solved the problem yet and I still dont have access to a functioning multimeter because I'm lazy. I mentioned earlier in the post that I had two problems and I was hoping that they were related and now i believe they are. I'm still having parasitic draw and haven't tracked it down but my other problem was an overheating problem. I decided to start on that.

The problem with it was that it would read as if it were getting up to operating temp and be fine but then it would start rising and it would increase drastically after turning on the A/C. I also just noticed that its not just with the A/C but it raises the temperature whenever their is a draw on the battery (ie it would increase slightly when turning on the lights) Just incase I flushed the system with water, changed the tstat, and took everything apart and just put it all back. Along with this coolant problem my radiator fan will not come on with my A/C (while the A/C fan would). I tested the temp sending unit by grounding it and it shot up hot. So the sending unit is fine but that wire appears to be screwy. It looks like that circuit might be grounding somewhere else which would explain the screwy gauge and the parasitic draw! However I'm still stumped on why the fan isn't turning on.

I guess I'm calling for someone (hopefully a wiseman or a moderator) that is familiar with wiring diagrams (Cuz I've looked at them and its like trying to read Egyptian) I also just wanted to double check that it isn't a cooling problem by listing some of the symptoms:

Temp can get to red but no overboiling and gets to red within 3 min of cold start.
Top radiator hose warm, lower one cold to the touch.
When I was pouring water in, after a certain point I could see it moving (so good water pump?)

Sorry for the long post guys, any help is GREATLY appreciated as it will result in less bald spots from pulling out my hair. Thanx a bunch

 

[luv2rallye]

(1) The temp sending unit the ECU uses to turn on fans is not the same one used to run your temp gauge.
(2) To find your small current drain, temporarily and only for testing purposes, connect a small 12 volt light bulb like a automotive tester light, marker light, or license plate light (don't try to start the engine with it in) in series with the positive battery cable. The bulb will limit the current so you now don’t have to worry about any short melting wires. If you don’t have a tester light you may have to solder wires on a bulb or put a bulb in a socket with wires. If there is a short, it will lite brightly (no short may lite it half bright along with a device doing the other half, or it may not lite at all). Then start disconnecting one at a time (1) things that don’t work, (2) suspected things, and (3) anything on that circuit. When you disconnect the item that is causing the short, the light will go out (so it's a great detection device). Keep in mind the short may be in the wiring or fusebox which is harder to find, but first check all the easier, more obvious devices and places. Remember the radio memory draws a small amount of current.

 

[Musashi450]

Ok so I'm gonna rig up a tester and finally go get my fuses for the multimeter today. Thanks for the info about the fan control sensor (whetever its called) I knew that 1G's had a sensor that controlled it on the radiator but I wasn't sure how it worked on 2G's. I'll let you know how my tests go.

 

[Musashi450]

Hey so I'm sitting here thinking, even if the engine temp sensor (not the sender) was bad, why would that stop the fan from coming on when the AC is turned on? Thanx

 

[MNGSX]

Disconnect the alternator.. I have seen bad regulators drain things too.

 

[Musashi450]

I was wondering about the alternator cuz I know its pretty old and was considering a new one anyway but when I checked the car while it was running, it appeared to raise the voltage to spec. Would you mind explaining the regulator on the alternator to me, again this is a case of electrical being foreign to me.

 

[MNGSX]

Sure if their is an internal short/ partial short (short with resistance) like v-reg diodes craping out disconnecting the big wire from the alternator will eliminate it.

Put the lamp inbetween the bat terminal and clamp. then completely disconnect all the alt electrical connections.. Did the lamp go out or get dimmer... Then its the alt.


I have seen alts that charge fine but they draw down the battery when the engine is off..

 

[Musashi450]

Great I'm running to get all the shit I need now, I'll get back to this with some results and I appreciate all the help.

 

[NyQuiL07]

i have the exact same problem going on with my car right now.
Has anyone else ever got smoking from behing the driver side headlight when getting a jump?

 

[Musashi450]

So I got the alternator checked out and that was ok.....(kinda sucks because I was looking for a reason to get a nice clean one) Anywho, so I asked my father about the problem and he was asking about my grounds. I have all the grounds with the exception of the ones I can't get to which is pretty much the hatch but then their was also the main ground that had busted off. I couldn't figured out how this would have anything to do with it but he said that it sounds like a floating ground and that since the battery itself isn't ground well, the voltage fluctuation in the battery is probably what I'm seing on the temp gauge. I hope this makes sense to some you electric guys because like I said in an earlier post, electrical is new to me and not exactly my thing. I have yet to put the alternator back in, hook up the main ground, and check it all out but I'm going to do that tomarrow after work. Again I'll keep ya updated.

 

[MNGSX]

I just said to unplug it not to remove it.....

 

[Musashi450]

haha, yeah but I was planning on getting it tested anyway and had to run out there really fast, figured I might as well check. I forgot to mention though that I did go out and get circuit light so I could run it between the battery the cable. Because my security had some type of voltage interuption thing on it for when the battery is disconnected I couldn't properly determine whether their was a draw normally or if it was just the security system trying to go off. so I just went under and disconnected its main power and then noticed no draw (lightbult off). Perhaps the security system is having problems with the door and hood and causing it to have a constant draw? Thie is the best I can come up with now. I did go ahead and check the circuit with the pos. cable on the alternator off though and their was no draw before or after.

 

[MNGSX]

It's probably the security....

Who installed it?

 

[Musashi450]

...........what I was told was a good car audio place. To be honest they aren't bad and they do have a lot of experience but I wish that I had done it myself. The only problem is that I've never touched what they have done since the car was running last with the exception of my disconnecting it now. I still might tear it all down and then wire it back up myself just because everything is ziptied to hell under the dash and I would like to clean it up. So yeah I'm guessing that the security system is having issues with the doors or hoods being off. Again I'm going to try grounding everything up tomarrow to make sure of the coolant deal. I'll post tomarrow night after I get done with it all.

 

[MNGSX]

I'd find the alarm brain and unplug it for now and see what happens

 

[BoostedAWD91]

Probably the easiest way to check for the draw and to find out what is causing it is to hook up a multimeter and check the battery voltage. Keep it hooked up and get some extensions or have a friend look at it while you go under the dash and start pulling fuses out 1 by 1. When you pull the fuse that makes the voltage change, you have found the circuit that the draw is coming from and you can go from there and test each part of the circuit. Let me know if this helps

 

[Musashi450]

Ok So this is hopefully the last of the problems I need to tackle in my car and I'm out of ideas on this one. I'm gonna need someone very electrically inclined on this. I'm getting a 1.6 amp draw ( ) normally. Now keep in mind my hatch, hood, and doors are all off and I do have an aftermarket alarm system. I unhooked all wires that go to the brain though so I dont think that its part of the equation. I tracked the wire that goes into the cabin via the drivers side fender. Its kinda hard to describe but I can send alldata wiring diagrams and point it out from their if someone is willing to help me with this. Anyways its a power wire that connects via a single white connector. When disconnected the draw jumps down to 0. I connected it and saw that it was going to the junction box in the compartment (interior fuse box) and I pulled a connector in the top right of the fuse box that again caused the Amps to go to 0. Looks like the connector goes to the sunroof. Alright so I rip down the headliner and start ripping out harnesses their to further track this thing down. I rip out the harness to the sunroof ecu (atleast thats what altdata calls it) Again the Amps drop to 0. So here I am. Now I need to find out what is grounding out that its part of that circuit. Please let me know on this, I'm dying. Thanx a bunch.
-Chris

 

[luv2rallye]

Ok - I'll admit I'm very electrically inclined (electrical engineer BSEE, 30 yrs experience in industry, and 40 yrs experience on cars). I am looking in my factory '99 Mitsu Eclipse circuit diagrams which should be close to yours. Yes, the 4 pin connector in the top right of the fuse box (B65) goes to the roof wiring harness. The sunroof ECU shows a 10 pin connector (E06) of which pin 7 is battery power and pin 8 is ignition switched power. Pins 9 & 10 go to the motor, 2 & 6 to ground, 4 & 5 to the sunroof open/close switch, and 3 to the left door switch. If any of pins 4,5, or 3 is grounded (which is what the switch does), the ECU will activate something. So check these switches. I suspect your left door switch is on (which would be if your door is open or off) unless you disconnected it. Or perhaps pin 9 or 10 is shorted to ground. Or you have a faulty sunroof ECU. PM me if you have more questions.

 

[luv2rallye]

Probably the easiest way to check for the draw and to find out what is causing it is to hook up a multimeter and check the battery voltage.

This only works if you have a weak battery or a significant draw - either of which to cause a measurable voltage drop. Unless you have a 0.01V multimeter you probably won't see the difference anyway (unless it's a large draw).

Musashi450: Don't use your ammeter in series with the battery post! The draw is a full/partial short which can blow your meter away (or blow it's fuse) every time. Most meters can only handle 10A. You have an unknown short which can be drawing anything. Read my article (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1496998#post1496998) and use a test light in series with the battery post for a safe way of finding shorts. Believe me on this one - I am an expert on electrical. Pm me if you have more questions.