The best Pump Gas "Turbo" set up? [Merged 5-7]

[sunflashx]

I've had a handful of turbos on a 2.0L and last year ran a 2.4L with a FP3065. Something of that size is loads of fun. The year before that I ran a 6 bolt/ 95 piston motor with a AGP full garrett 50 trim setup. I would say the 2.4L/FP3065 spools faster, and was more fun to drive than the old 50 trim setup. The transient response of the FP3065 is crazy. Racing a friend in a stock turbod EVO, I would say that I didn't lose any ground due to spool when racing from a roll.

I don't know how different a larger 35R based turbo is for characteristics, but if it's just a bit slower than the 3065, I'd say you can't go wrong there either.

The FP3 cams are supposed to give a pretty good punch down low on a 2.4L motor. They're definately on my wishlist.

*Edit* So far I have not yet run any race gas, 91 octane only.

 

[Mackzero]

Thanks for the recommendations guys. I went with a GT30R with .82 housing, surge ports etc. etc. As far as cams, I will be doing the FP2s or FP3s, just need to look at them a bit more. Oh, and as far as wanting a big power band... I HAVE a 96 WS-6 Trans-Am with a slightly modded LT1 in it. It is getting twin turbos next year. Had to finish the little guy first! Besides I like the AWD honestly, it never gets old...

Thanks again guys!

 

[lewroe59]

sounds like you just need to keep the gt32.

 

[Mackzero]

I sold it and the manifold, and bought the new manifold, turbo, and wastegate for only $75 more.

 

[definitiveno]

lets say I was able to max out my gt30r on pump gas and alcohol, or atleast get to the point where I couldn't get any more output from the setup.

if I was still just a little hungry and wanted to put a 50 shot on top of it, would it be safe or would the hole tune have to be redone to accomodat the nitrous.?


ive read some where nitrous lowers intake temps wont change cylender temps when burned........

Complete retune or minor adjustments?

 

[Slippi84]

Nitrous on a forced induction engine can be tricky. You have to watch knock I would get some sort of wideband or a faily accurate a/f ration monitor to see if you a/f changes while on the bottle. As long as you get a wet kit which is the way I would hope you were going, the kit will add the fuel needed just monitor things to make sure the kit is doing what it's suposed to. If I were you I would richen things up a bit and just watch for know. So to answer your questions should be minor changes.

 

[DSMJim]

You will be back to square one with tuning. You can't just add the shot on a turbo car and hope for the best. Honestly you will wanna put in the jet for a 50hp nitrous shot and over compensate the fuel with a 75hp shot jet so it will be rich to start, then you can tune it down from there. Because your intake is pressureized at 20psi the fuel and nitrous has to overcome that because it's spraying into a pressureized pipe. For the nitrous at 1200psi thats not a problem, for fuel which is only 65-70psi spraying into a 20psi pipe, thats a problem. This is why the larger fuel jet is a good idea to start then see whats happening on your WIDE BAND AIR FUEL METER. You do have one dont you? If not, don't even bother messing with this stuff with a stupid pocket logger etc.. Your gonna smoke the motor with unreliable gauges like that...

www.innovatemotorsports.com

 

[definitiveno]

no wide band in car all tuning will be done on a dyno......

 

[kobykris]

Put methanol injection on the car if you want real power on pump gas. Otherwise your going to be gimping around with a giant turbo on pump gas. It is literally like a on/off switch going from 20psi to 30-35psi on those things.

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

I dont think its what you want for the street, but Magnus went in the low 9's on pump w/ a gt42r. The spool would probably be a little quicker too since your stroked and nos'd

 

[Slippi84]

Jim he's talking about going and getting a good tune without the nitrous and then going and spraying on top of that. He wouldn't have to start from scratch as long as his a/f stayed around what it was which if you go with a kit like ZEX it shouldn't change drastically. Granted It's not gonna be a slap on and spray thing but I don't think he should have to start from scratch. As long as he turns down the boost and watches for knock, timing and Wideband it should just be fine tunning the wideopen fuel map or if your using a safc the HIGH settings.

 

[Slippi84]

I have a turbonetics 60-1 that came in a great deal package so don't jusmp on my balls for buying a turbo that isn't 100% what I was lookin for if I tell you the deal you would have taken it to . I need to sell this 60-1 and get a turbo that I can make 450-500awhp on 93octane. I don't want a turbo that takes till tomorrow to spool but i'm not gonna cry about slower than stock spool or stretability.

A couple turbos I was lookin at are of course the FP3065 FP Red FP Green, the PTE SCM61. I don't want ppl to be like well this company claims and this compny claims just first hand or atleast seeing a friend's dyno proven performance. Thanks a lot fellas

 

[CanadianTSi]

Very few people make that kind of power on pump gas, but Dre did it with a 50 trim and super95 made 520 with a 3052.

 

[shempt]

It's still an age old question as to the decision of what new turbo to choose. But the same principals still apply. Usually a larger turbo has much better flow and boost capabilities than a smaller one. A smaller one will give you quicker spool. Although I cannot tell you about these turbos first hand, I did have a friend use the FP3065 and liked it a lot for the max HP. He used 2g pistons in a 1g block so the compression was higher to help out in the spool as well.
I had been using a 18g on a stock 1g block for years. I had a lot of bolt ons including a RRE FMIC and the spool was responsive and relatively quick here in Mile High land Colorado.
But now in my ventures for larger HP I had to compromise the lag a bit for more HP. A BB turbo will help a little but cost you a bit more, too. So I decided to go the way of a T3/4 57trim. In order to reduce the lag and support it, there was many other things that I had to do to make it work well.
So the question to ask, really. What turbo is best for my current needs? And/or future? And if your needs have changed for both higher HP and quick spool, then you will have to look at all the other aspects of you car as well. Like what compression you are running now and if you are considering raising it to help spool. Are you going to stroke it? What cams and injectors are you running? Are you planning on changing any part of the rest of your car's engine and fuel management or just replace the turbo? All this should be addressed first.
I spent tuns of money for all the other stuff just to support the turbo. That took more research than the turbo decision itself.
ew

 

[coolnick]

When you get up into those numbers there is a lot more that goes into it than just the turbo. I wish there was a thread for all the people that buy the big turbos, get it all together, and put down nowhere near what they expect. For those kind of numbers you are going to need a nice motor with perfect compression to start with. Then you will need a sheet metal intake manifold, cams, and a sprinkle of good luck. FP has a few dyno plots on their site for the 3052 and the 3065. The 3052 has more plots, one of them is pump gas and I believe it put down right around 500 whp. From the looks of the plots, that car did not have stock cams or intake manifold.

And as shempt says, the turbo will end up being the cheapest part of the equation, even if you go the ultra expensive route. When my PTE 50 trim didn't pull like I thought it would, a compression test showed I was running on 3 cylinders. Several thousand dollars later, I am ready to assemble my new motor...

 

[Slippi84]

I already have smim and a fresh 6bolt with no balance shafts. Stock compresion . Cams I think I will go hks 272 cause they are proven performance cams. ONly thing I won't have is a ported head and raised compression. If that helps you guys give me a better suggestistion. I think 450awhp is a more realistic goal on pump after reasech.

 

[1fast97gsx]

450 is realistic, however all of those turbos can meet that goal. Back when I chose my turbo ( scm61 which is now back up for sale ) I considered those as well. In the end I realized the turbo itself will make a difference, but we are talking minal power differences on pump and its moreso properly supporting the turbo that will make that extra power. I went with the scm61 because it was the cheapest out of the bunch and very commonly used around here. The FP3065 was next on my list, but the price difference made the difference for me. Why pay that much more for a turbo that won't make that much more power than the 61 on pump ( if any ) since most of us don't drive around on 30+ psi and race gas on a daily basis. If it's a track car then I'd hope you have a build motor / head and a larger turbo than those listed unless you want to have an 11 second trailor car. They are all great turbos and chances are you won't regret whichever one you go with. If you are worried about spool up then you either need a stroker or a V8. The bottom line is a 2.0 dsm engine with a huge turbo making 500+ hp is going to have lag and there's nothing you can do about it. If you don't want lag, get an all motor car such as a camaro or t/a.

 

[shempt]

In all the experience I have in witnessing so many DSMs, there never seems to be one that is identical in after market setups. There is always a variation on a theme. And many people want bragging rights for high HP but do not realize that it's not the means to an end. What I mean here is you can still have a world winning rally car that has only 300HP and be a real bruiser. Then again. You can have a 500+HP drag car and if you can not get the power down or drive or tune right, it's pointless.
I just reexamined your car's profile. If you want only an opinion, I can give you this. ...
From what I've learned is larger power = more air and fuel. That's an overly simple recommendation but it's a good start.
With that in mind, the only way you are going to get the 450+hp you are looking for ( and I'm figuring you mean at the crank hp) then you might want to go the way of the FP Green and with the following to suit. After market cams are a good choice but not cheap. But stock ones are. There are size B and size C to choose from. Get the higher lift C (i think it is) for your cams. Get a Maft with 3" GM mas bolted before your throttle body. That will help your spool a lot and allow higher flow as well as the cams for the upper range of power w/o increasing the lag time. Also if you want a broader range of power ( and I'd think you do for road racing) then get an E-Prom ECU and raise the rev to about 8k. If you go higher than that, you might want to get heavier valve springs first. Also make sure that you can buy the largest filter and pipe to the turbo's inlet you can fit, with a heat shield in place, also.
If you have a decent FMIC, then that is all what you will need for about 100+ ponies. BUT if you want to do more power than that on pump gas, do water injection and about as much psi you can get away with very little knock. Just keep an eye on your EGTs during long hard and top end pulls.
If you want bigger power than that later, then you will have to do a whole lot more with the internals and porting of the stock head and manifolds to help. I think I'm sold on the stroking idea, I just haven't the money for it now.
I run several 11.6 qtr. mi. times here at 5800feet (thinner air) with a stock intake mani and a T3 exh mani. with a non ported 1g head! But I use 105 unleaded and my internals are completely different.
1mm over valves, 264 in/out cams, crower springs, 9:1 Ross pistons, etc...
My T3/4 is about a 50 lb./min. turbo. I think that's like the FP green. The red and 60-1 is larger. Maybe someone can find out how much larger and post the flow #s.
ew

 

[Slippi84]

CRANK HP????? COme on man I'm not a honda guy I'm talkin about AWHP!! The very same turbo setup I bought made 469AWHP with race gas. This was on STOCK head STOCK compression and less overall mods than I have(mainly no smim). While I agree with you 100% that power does not equal good times, a tune that squeezes even 375awhp on pump will get me into the 11's and will make me plenty happy but with weight reduction and 450whp I would be lookin at low 11's and would be a very scary street monster whoch is my real goal. I started this thread because my turbo is a RACE GAS turbo. The hp it made on the previous owners car proves that but without going to the track you can't get race gas around me. So I need to find a turbo that with a good tune on 93 octane will make 400-450AWHP. I originally said 500 not realising that was a little high without something like AEM EMS and a miracle, but I believe that I can def do 400-450awhp with a better pump turbo and a good tune. I just nedd to know from you guys first hand which turbo you guys think that is.

 

[larsrya8]

The information from many, many vendor websites lists 50-trims in the 400-450 HP range. If i remember correctly, the FP Green and 3052 are very close to, if not, 50-trim turbos. So if your goal is to make 400-450 HP on the street with 93 octane, get a 50-trim. You'll probably want to get DSMLink to so you can tune it nicely, and who doesn't like the stutterbox?

I see in your profile that you have a turbonetics 60-1 listed. If its a full garret, you'll need a Mitsu exhaust manifold to run the FP turbos. Either way you'll need to custom-fab your downpipe, since the Green is supposed to bolt onto the Mitsu housing and the 3052 doesn't bolt up to anything standard. Seeing as that will cost you more money, I'd vote for a full garrett 50-trim, or maybe one of the GT turbos if you want the ball-bearing for the spool and transient response (a nice thing for a street car). I think the comparable GT would be the GT-12... one of them does close to 49lbs/min, which is what a 50-trim supposedly does.

So, cliffnotes: If you have a full garrett setup now, get either a normal 50-trim or a ball-bearing "50-trim". If you have a mitsu/garrett hybrid, get either the Green or the 3052.

That's all I've got for now.

(P.S. I don't think "Honda guys" are the only people that talk about crank horsepower.)

(P.P.S. Raising your compression to 8.5:1 would also help, but isn't required, to make 400-450 HP.)

 

[Mackzero]

Forgot to reply to the thread....

I sold the stroker kit, because I have too many projects going right now.

So I am sticking with my motor I have in the car now, but doing the GT30R on it with DSMLink, Tial 38mm external and some other stuff.

 

[nanokpsi]

I dont think its what you want for the street, but Magnus went in the low 9's on pump w/ a gt42r. The spool would probably be a little quicker too since your stroked and nos'd

I hope you are smarter than this and this was just a brain fart of sorts. I seriously doubt Marco runs his car at the strip on pump gas, especially into the low 9s.

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

Go to the vid section on the magnus website. He ran like a 9.4 or something on pump. Its one of the vids...idk but it IS there.
Thanks

 

[Mackzero]

I have seen a GT42R recently ( I am debating getting one in place of the turbo I have for my 355 cu.in. WS6 build I am doing ) That is MORE than what I would like to shove under the hood even with the stroker Badass turbo though, and it is capable of making a huge amount of power on pumpgas....

 

[nanokpsi]

Go to the vid section on the magnus website. He ran like a 9.4 or something on pump. Its one of the vids...idk but it IS there.
Thanks

Actually, the fastest time for him on DSmtimes.org is 9.508. I assure you this wasn't on pump gas. He also has some other nine second passes on his sight, but I assure you, none of them are on pump gas.