Talon TSi AWD or Eclipse GSX or VW GTI VR6

[albguy]

Hello guys and girls,

I'm almost 17 years old, and I have a budget of $12000 CDN, which is about $9500 US, to spend on a car. I am having a very hard time deciding what to get. I have always been a VW diehard fan and my room is filled with GTI posters, but when I started looking at DSM's I fell in love with them too. When It comes to 0-60, and 1/4 mile times I know that the talons and eclipses will kill a GTI, but when it comes to luxury and propably handling (not sure) the Eclipses and almost any other Japanese car can't beat the Europeans. Also I am not sure how reliable DSM's are, will they have problems after ~90K miles, cause VW have almost NO engine problems up to ~150K miles. Also I am looking to get it almost 100% stock, so I could do all the mods myself. If i get the Talong i'll propably have about $1000 CDN available for performance upgrades only (NO BODY UPGRADES WHATSOEVER). But if I get the 2000 GTI 1.8t I can get 200HP with less than $500 using the CHIP, and ill have $500 to get an exhaust system, and maybe a CAI. So what do you guys think I should get 1995-1999 Talon/Eclipse Turbo or 1995-1999 GTI VR6, or 2000 GTI 1.8T ?

 

[blaster1812]

Get the Eagle Talon TSI AWD other than the GSX. Most gsx's in Canada are 14-20 thousand canadian which i think is a ripoff. Buy the Talon then you will have a few thousand if you find a good deal and could mod it a bit. BTW what year do u want?

 

[albguy]

Well I was looking for a 1997 model, because it looks nicer in the front.

 

[blaster1812]

There's Eagle Talon''s on www.automart.ca for around 9k witch is a good deal if u want to check it out.

 

[albguy]

I know, I have bought Autotrader for the past month and I have seend that I can get a 1996 Talon Tsi AWD all stock for 12000, and it only have 100000 kilometers, which is less than 60k miles. I would guess that it is a pretty good deal. Also the reasong that I want it stock is because there is a greater chance that a car has been abused if it has a lot of performace mods, and there is a good chance that it has been at the track a lot of times.

 

[blaster1812]

Read this http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/answers-terms.htm#whatiscrankwalk

 

[albguy]

Man, I really think I should listen to my dad and stick with the Europeans, you never hear of a walking crankshaft in European engines. Also the GTI VR6, I think has more potential in the long run, just turbo it and youll get 300 HP with Stage 1.

 

[blaster1812]

You could just swap in the 1g engine to the 2g.

 

[albguy]

The thing is that I dont want to deal withj engine swaps. If I would go for engine swaps, I would rather get a 1993 240SX and swap an SR20DET engine package for it ($9500 CDN) which will put 250 rwhp ( www.heavythrottle.com ) which is about 290HP on the crank.

 

[blaster1812]

Alot of people say crankwalk is overrated witch i agree with alot of people. Some people have crank walk and some are lucky and neaver happen to them. Any engine can Crankwalk

 

[albguy]

The thing is that I want Reliability and Performance, not just performance, if I wanted to buy a fast car I could easily geta Camaro Formula1 or Camaro Z28 which will do 0-60 in 5 flat and 1/4 in 13.5 sec, but the thig is that I HATE AMERICAN CARS, because they have THE WORST RELIABILITY IN THE WORLD.

 

[sjwelna]

The thing is that I want Reliability and Performance, not just performance, if I wanted to buy a fast car I could easily geta Camaro Formula1 or Camaro Z28 which will do 0-60 in 5 flat and 1/4 in 13.5 sec, but the thig is that I HATE AMERICAN CARS, because they have THE WORST RELIABILITY IN THE WORLD.

We all want both, if you find a car that has reliability and performance, let us all know. You don't get both, you get one or the other.

Reliability and performance are indirectly proportional, the more of one you get, the less of the other. Sounds like you need to pick which you want more.

-Steve

 

[Denji]

eff crankwalk, get a tsi awd.. 120,000 never a problem!

p.s. back off my bumper! i like the 96.

 

[halik008]

We all want both, if you find a car that has reliability and performance, let us all know. You don't get both, you get one or the other.

Reliability and performance are indirectly proportional, the more of one you get, the less of the other. Sounds like you need to pick which you want more.

-Steve

well this is only partially true. There are plenty of cars that are all about performace and 100% reliable, porche..ferrari...lambo...austin martin..etc ....come to my mind, only problem is that they are out of most out or's league. :thumbdown I mean most of us would have to sell our house and both kidneys to afford one while living in it.....

hmmm come to think of it..........

halik

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Okay, is this guy mistaken and no one has pointed out that VW have HORRIBLE reliability. Dude if you look at any car magazine or consumer guide, they have some of the worst reliability STOCK! the 4G63 has a pretty refined engine considering its been in production for so long. I mean hell, its still in the evo (though massaged to handle 500 hp stock internals.)

 

[Eclipse96Ryder]

WHAT???? IS ANYBODY READING THIS GUY'S RESPONSES....


alright man, idk what you know but you said a gti vr6 has more potential in the long run??? HAHAHA, naw dude....not even close..."just turbo it and have 300 at the crank" ya you could do thatr or you get a tsi/gsx and put a $55 boost controller and some intercooler pipes and have "crank" horsepower...and AWD...which will murder any car off the line....

this is no contest....you get no performance from bolt ons with a n/a motor, sorry but i dont see the point in going after an all motor car trying to turbo it and shit...just do it right the first time do you dont have to do it again....get the car thats built and proven 450hp on the stock internals and 25psi is nothing to this motor....people run 20g turbos and 27psi daily on pump gas on the stock internals on this shit.....the dsm will run circles around the gti vr6 in every category and u wont be disspaoiinted once you spend $1000 in mods and run a mid 13 with a nasty launch....

or you could turbo a vr6 for $3000 and then run high 13's and have traction problems and possibly some bottom end problems...just doesnt make sense to me...

dsm for ever

 

[LiquidGS-T]

I have a friend here in allentown with a HIGHLY MODDED GTi 1.8T golf, Its only puttin down low 200 some at the crank. Its on record that he has the highest horsepowered GTi on the stock turbo. Thats sad, my eclipse had that much with an exhaust boost controller and K&N air filter. VW suck. His Golf is runnin high 13s and its NEVER gonna see 12s without NOS. There goes potential... He does have a nicer interior than me, but that doesn't bother me when i'm 4 cars ahead of him. sorry i'm really not a VW fan.

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

The thing is that I want Reliability and Performance, not just performance, if I wanted to buy a fast car I could easily geta Camaro Formula1 or Camaro Z28 which will do 0-60 in 5 flat and 1/4 in 13.5 sec, but the thig is that I HATE AMERICAN CARS, because they have THE WORST RELIABILITY IN THE WORLD.

Not to be mean, but DSM's are american cars. And no we don't have the worst reliability in the world

I do know what you mean because you average low budget cavalier or escort is junk.

 

[yllsen]

Why do you put alb guy for your name? Just wondering if you play DAOC and mean Albion guy.

Anyhow, I just bought a 97 TSI talon AWD Turbo for 4500$!!
There are quite a few things to fix on it, but you know what? It will be worth it.
At least I'll know exactly what's been fixed. It's a 7 year old car. You can't buy these cars new because they just aren't made anymore.
So if I get all the necessary things fixed, it will be like havin a new car. Cheaper too.
Well it helps if you know a good mechanic.

 

[LaserDad91]

VW guy? I USED to be! Drove Rabbits for many years. This is my summary.

VW, very reliable, but lots of little stuff breaks. Ineriors on mine were cheap. Syling? Well I did say I drove basic rabbits, so nothing special there.

I frankly look at it this way. No matter what you do to a VW Rabbit, GTI, Golf etc. it still looks like a box on wheels! As far as handling, I cannot comment on the GTI's. Golf's etc. but my 91 Laser blows most away. Before I bought my DSM, I ask my long time VW mechanic about them. He basically said, outside of timing belt changes, I never see them, never had one come back blown to bits. This changes, as you mod, as we all know, and especially if you play speed racer every day!! But, outside of my timing belt, I have been good to go!!

Get a stock DSM, that has not been run to death, and you will probably be fine. If you got that much, maybe by a 3G, V6, and supercharge it!! Really not sure how much 3G"s run.

But, for one thing, I won't go back to VW, unless it is my winter beater!!

 

[Gigaah]

Not to be mean, but DSM's are american cars. And no we don't have the worst reliability in the world

I do know what you mean because you average low budget cavalier or escort is junk.

I couldn't say I'd classify DSM's anywhere near "american". IMHO these days you pretty much have to make the call by who did the engineering. I don't know where the parts where made, I know they were assembled in the US but that hardly counts for anything when it comes to being classified as "american" to me.



That being said I'm starting to prefer the metric stuff for pure simplicity.


To the original poster: You'll never get a straight answer from other people really. It usually comes down to the huge grey area of personal experience and opinion.

I personally think DSM's are good cars. There is that crankwalk issue on the 2G's. I've read vastly different precentages..but I don't belive the really high ones. If your pushing 100+ horsepower over stock your going to hear stories about this and that going wrong.
I personally cannot think of many/any other cars I'd rather have. Here is why.

1. AWD Talon/Eclipse: An AWD sports car is cool and launches sweet. I also live in wisconsin..it snows...a lot...these cars drive on snow with the greatest of ease untill the snow gets so high your basicly a snow plow.

2. Reasonably prices upgrade paths.

3. 4g63 engine is known for holding a boat load of HP on stock internals

4. spare parts. Gosh, you can get used spare parts for next to nothing on DSM trader. Every other day someone is parting out something.

You'd have to fish the VW sites to get the other side of the story.

 

[albguy]

Guys, trust me in the long run the GTI VR6 will outrun a mildly modded talon. EIP tuning and HPA motorsport have turbo kits that can take the VR6 to over 700hp, with 100% stock internals but i know that with 3000 you can easily get 350HP out of a DSM, thats true. Also, when ti comes to volkswagen reliability it is always small electrical problems (power winfos, doors, etc), I have never heard of a VW whose engine was teared appart because of a walking crank. But on the other side, it will cost mea lot to soop up a GTI.

 

[calcifer]

Why don't you get a 1g? That way you would spend less $ on the car, have more money for mods, and probably have leftover money for rainy days.

 

[albguy]

The thing is that I will not go to the track every day, and I want a car with a beautiful exterior, and decent performance, as I said the only mods I will propably do are Full Exhaust, CAI, chip, and maybe later on I'll add a turbo timer and a boost control unit. 260HP are enough for me, and I want a reliable car since I'm going to University, and I propably wont buy another car for 4 years.

 

[halik008]

Guys, trust me in the long run the GTI VR6 will outrun a mildly modded talon. EIP tuning and HPA motorsport have turbo kits that can take the VR6 to over 700hp, with 100% stock internals but i know that with 3000 you can easily get 350HP out of a DSM, thats true. Also, when ti comes to volkswagen reliability it is always small electrical problems (power winfos, doors, etc), I have never heard of a VW whose engine was teared appart because of a walking crank. But on the other side, it will cost mea lot to soop up a GTI.

with the same money sepnd of both...there is little change GTi will beat DSM.....

halik